The specters of a failed levy and bond issue, poor MAP test scores, redistricting and school closings did little to dampen the spirts of the St. Joseph School District's annual convocation Tuesday morning.
Educators and support staff from every faction of the district sat like delegates in colored-coded school T-shirts. And when each school's name was called, members showed their spirit with pom-poms, cheers, drums and noisemakers.
It was a pep rally to welcome back and motivate district staff for the upcoming school year, which begins today - a hurrah going into a school year with a levy vote in November and after salary freezes and staff cuts.
"You're suffering from a salary freeze and the ability to move up a step," Diane Watson, school board president, told the crowd of more than 1,600 teachers and support staff. "You've been asked to bear the burden of a lost levy, and as a member of the school board, we do thank you for the sacrifices you're making for the children of St. Joseph."
Ms. Watson also urged district members to get out and support the school levy ballot issue in November.
The renewal of the operating budget tax - a 63 cents per $100 of assessed valuation tax - failed in April, along with a bond initiative that would have built two new schools. Now residents will vote again on Nov. 3 to replace the 63 cents, but this time with a five-year sunset clause.
"As an educator, each one of you have the opportunity not only to vote, but to influence how others vote," Ms. Watson said.
Keynote speaker Luis Cruz, a Los Angeles school district educator, entertained the crowd with stories about growing up in the California school system and his own family. He also spoke of the huge disparities in education brought on by race and poverty, and how teaching methods have to adapt for these and other issues, such as teen pregnancy.
"I'm sorry to have to say this - it's not just about teaching kids how to read and write anymore," Dr. Cruz said.
He told the group that they weren't "just a teacher" or "just a custodian," but an elite team that is commissioned to make a positive impact in the lives of others.
"In less than 24 hours, something magical is going to happen. You will be in the process of saving lives," Dr. Cruz said.
Superintendent Dr. Melody Smith expressed the importance of fundamentals to her staff and constituents. These fundamentals included forming relationships and determining individual purpose.
In mentioning Friday night's high school jamboree, Dr. Smith compared the current struggles of the school district to battles on the football field.
"Sometimes it's by a yard at a time, sometimes it's two yards forward and three yards back, sometimes it's a single perfect play, and sometimes they don't reach their goal, no matter what they do," she said. "But they make sure they are pursuing it again, because if they don't, they won't succeed in their mission - and their mission is to win. The mission has never changed."
Alonzo Weston can be reached at alonzow@npgco.com.
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Sidamo says...
I find it funny that Ms. Patterson gave Engineers an award for cleanest school, but couldn't bring herself to name the school (Neely).
Magical.
August 19, 2009 at 7:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
We totally support the teachers and the support staff of our district and thank them for what they do and for continuing to teach our communities children through all of this mess the board and admin has created.
August 19, 2009 at 7:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nrs4life says...
I wonder how much the district paid for Mr. Cruz to come and speak???
August 19, 2009 at 7:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
StJoeMoe says...
Back to school night was wonderful. Schools looked good, teachers were wonderful, admin was super and the kids - they kids were fantastic!
Sure, it times are tight, but you know what, we will make it through them.
And this might be the best year ever, there is a lot more to measurement than how much money the schools get, in fact, that should not even be a measurement.
Money is the root of all evil, or so I've witnessed.
The administration needs to understand that I am holding them accountable to the demeanor of the schools.
No whinning about funding, times are tight everywhere, we qualified for free lunch for the first time EVER, I can relate to tightened purse strings -
But that is no reason we can not give our children the best we can.
This is going to be one of the best years ever in many ways.
August 19, 2009 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fanofsports says...
The money for the guest speaker was paid for by a not for profit organization.
August 19, 2009 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
A couple of problems I see here.
First: Ms. Watson's statement, "You've been asked to bear the burden of a lost levy, and as a member of the school board, we do thank you for the sacrifices you're making for the children of St. Joseph."
and second: "As an educator, each one of you have the opportunity not only to vote, but to influence how others vote,"
On the first issue, the guy who independently audited the schools financials stated that they have more than enough money in reserves to keep spending as they had been spending for the next two years and still have enough money left in reserves to be financially stable. Why are there sacrifices being made? And why aren't the administrators bearing some of the burden of the cuts??
Second, I thought that the teachers could not influence votes, although, I remember my first grader coming home last year telling me that his teacher told him to make sure to tell us to vote yes yes. Who knows what the law is regarding this?
August 19, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apmastrangelo says...
All predictable comments by a district having done so much in painting the canvas of events that now exists.
yougottabe- Absolutely accurate observation. The decisions, "choices", made by the district over sacrifice are calculated and continue to demonstrate fulfilling an agenda over doing what is best for the educational process at this time.
August 19, 2009 at 10:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
classyt says...
Just to clarify, Neely did not win schools cleanest it was given to the administrative staff for the administrative building, Neely came in second. The Neely group, of custodians, went to Hosea and I am sure they will do a fantastic job of keeping that school clean also. Most custodians know that it is not important what school or building they are cleaning. They know it is the pride they feel for keeping the facility they are in charge of clean and safe for all students, staff, and visitors. Our school system has a great maintenance staff from the director down and they work hard no matter what school they are at. I'm surprised and pleased that Patterson even acknowledged the support staff, maybe things are looking up :}
August 19, 2009 at 10:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
80slady says...
UGH!! The SJSB are such victim thinkers!!! It drives me crazy to hear and read Mrs. Watson's comment on how we need to support the school district.
YOU FIRST, Mrs. Watson!! Maybe you should take your own advice before you start to dish it out to others. I do support these teachers, staff, and children..it frustrates me to the fullest to see how the are NOT respected by the SJSD and the SJSB. All you hear is how this is going to be difficult and that the teachers need to keep going...stop blaming it on the city for not passing the levy..its because of the SJSD and SJSB. They so need to take blame for their own wrong-doings.
I feel for the teachers of the town. They are great and are having to suffer the consequences of a bad school board. I have every intention to do what I can to help out my children's teachers this year to help make their job easier.
Sorry to get so frustrated, but I am soooo done!
August 19, 2009 at 11:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
fanofsports,
So you are saying the district paid for Mr Cruz to speak because they are a non-profit organization are they not?
Yougottabekiddingme,
You could have not said it any better where is the administrations sacrifices? Do they not take pay cuts as well? They should take pay cuts before any of our teachers do.And they should have taken pay cuts before schools were closed as well.
80slady,
I agree with what you have to say as well Mrs Watson should take some of her own advice.
And you are very correct it is the sjsd/sjsb fault the levy did not pass and it is their fault with the mess the schools are in now.
Our children teachers all had smiles on their faces this morning and were ready to go and we really appreciate all they do for our children as well as outr communitys children.
SJSB/SJSD Administration you all need to take a few percent pay cut come on help the cause out, you want everybody else in the public to provide during hard times so now it is your turn as well.
August 19, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
stjoeproud1 says...
You people would cry and moan if you won the lottery. The school dist is not the enemy people. When I take my son to school I see great people with a hard job ahead of them doing it with a smile. I think it's wonderful how they get together and prepare for the long hard school year ahead of them. I see a lot of negative people saying a lot of negative things on this page. But I would guess 95% of them took that free education from the Saint Joesph school dist.
August 19, 2009 at 1:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CJT says...
Unfortunately I see the potential for a colossal failure. My daughter is at one of the better performing grammar schools. What I saw was a teacher trying to keep a stiff upper lip with close to 30 kids and will likely be over 30 kids.
A significant portion or the class (20%) don't have desks or books.
My wife spoke to the school department and was told that it would be AT LEAST A WEEK!!!!
So they work to bring another school down while the superintendent gives away money to the real estate developers on Cook Road.
August 19, 2009 at 4:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CJT says...
Got home tonight to find my youngest daughter previously mentioned is now in a class with over 30. No talk about assistance.
My son in the same school is over 30 children in his class.
Bode screwed up and denied my daughter who just started at the school the ability to have a lunch.
It seeems like the last thing we should be worrying about is building nice expensive schools that are not needed. As far as I can tell, with the removal of the children from one school to abother, there is plenty of capacity. Maybe the developer should build the school instead of raking in millions per acre and cleaning up on taking money from the kids.
Meahwhile, what is the administration doing. They certianly had no plan despite having plenty of time to prepare for this and get things addressed.
Perhaps the entire school board should resign in disgrace and we should terminate 90% of the administration since they obviously can't do their jobs and are busy setting up deals with real estate developers and breaking election laws.
August 19, 2009 at 6:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kcroyl85 says...
Ms. Patterson didn't say the name of the cleaniest school because the district is so messed up. That last year the Maintenance Office won and this year it was the Downtown libary where the district offices are. Boy they sure got a lot of students in both of those places. Neely did score really high but it was the Office buildings the last two years. They really have alot of plays,ballgames,lunches,etc to clean up after it's a slap in the face of anyone that works at one of the high schools.
August 19, 2009 at 6:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
8342 says...
Mr. Cruz's appearance was paid for by grant $$, not by SJSD. When are you people going to figure out that the school district is not the enemy. I thank God for the wonderful teachers my children have had and what a positive influence so many of these people have been in their lives. Have any of you considered focusing on the postive?
August 19, 2009 at 6:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momswisher says...
I haven't read here where anyone has said anything negative about the teachers. Only praise for them.
August 19, 2009 at 7:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
CJT,
I really do feel for you and your children. I believe that 30 plus children is over the amount allowed per classroom.I would be screaming at the Board and the district Administration if my children did not have a desk or books for over a week.How do they think they are going to learn and do their homework with out books?What do they expect these children to do sit on the floor? I would be calling the state and asking them what you can do and what the situation is at your school.
And I totally agree with you the school board should resign in disgrace and the downtown administration should either resign or be terminated.
I have said all along that when school started there was going to be issues.
Our teachers as I said this morning had smiles on their faces and were ready to teach our students they also had some helpers in their classes this morning to help them with all of the confusion.
We are very strong supporters for our teachers and the individual schools administration but the people downtown are just something else and they all need replaced.
Now 8342 the people downtown are their own worst enemies and our as well look at what they have done to our communitys children.
To the teachers we support you and thanks for hanging in there for our children and you all do a very good job with what you all have to work with and the mess the district has caused.
This for you APPLE if the administration did their job right in the first place people would leave them alone. Think about it children having no desk to sit at and no books for over a week I would say this in not doing their jobs very well APPLE.
August 19, 2009 at 8:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
CJT please explain how the district gqve away money to developers on cook road. Please look at the facts. The district did not buy any land from any real estate developer. You assert they are making millions per acre. I don't see how. Lots are a quarter of an acre in one section that I could locate quickly. To make millions per acre they would have to sell a lot for more than 250k. Also, your comment implies they are making as in profiting millions per acre. First they bought the land, paid to have it graded, paid the development costs to subdivide it, roads, sewers, utilities, etc. Their profit, after paying the bank interest, will be a pittance of what you have imagined.
As to the district, yes, sometimes it does seem like they just got into this business for the first time. The teachers are struggling with who belongs where. Who is going to show up? Desks, books, etc. are in the wrong buildings. They made their best plans, but best plans often don't cover all situations.
August 19, 2009 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
238er,
Come on you got to be kidding me if you believe that the district is not wrong in this situation.30 plus children in the class,not enough desk for thechildren,and no books either.And then the district tells the parents that it will be a week till their children recieves books.
This is piss poor administration no matter how you look at it.
And as I have said children would suffer at the beginning of the year and look it has already started. You all can continue to support these people all you want but it look worse for them everyday now doesnt it.
So my question for you 238er is.Do you think it alright for these children not to have desk and books as well to have over 30 plus children in the classroom?
What about these parent childnot getting lunch what is your take on that? I think it is totally unexcusable.
See this is what closing schools down does.
August 19, 2009 at 9:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
Is the SJSB or administration perfect...NO! But my lord give 'em a break every once in awhile.
MM1967 - when was the last time you attempted to run an entity with roughly 11,000 students, 1500 employees, provides free/reduced food, offers every program known to man, covers an area of 50 square miles all while on a shoestring budget? Then consider each school year is like starting all over again. There's bound to be some issues the first few days back! Given time, the students will have seating arrangements and books in hand. Heck, even the top colleges and universities have issues with seating and books the first week and someone is paying a lot more for that education than anyone is paying for public education.
Yes, I said shoestring budget! At this time, the district must be able to run for an indefinite number of years on the 32 million they have in reserve. I'm sure if you or anyone else could guarantee when the community will return to funding to the district, then they will use the existing money differently.
MM1967 - You stated earlier, "if the administration did their job right in the first place people would leave them alone." That's a very true statement but equally as true is...if the citizens did their job right in the first place, then the district would not be in this position. See, it's the citizens that elected the School Board which oversees the administration. It's also the citizens that voted down appropriately funding the school district.
Time and time again the community has put down the SJSB and administration and rightful so in many instances. However, the community continually fails to recognize that they are as much of the problem as they are the solution.
August 19, 2009 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brennen says...
Quote from yougottabekiddingme "On the first issue, the guy who independently audited the schools financials stated that they have more than enough money in reserves to keep spending as they had been spending for the next two years and still have enough money left in reserves to be financially stable. Why are there sacrifices being made? And why aren't the administrators bearing some of the burden of the cuts??"
This is complete inaccurate information. First of all, that is the complete opposite of what the audit said. It said that at present the school district will be bankrupt in 1-2 years without the .63. If the levy passes it will be bankrupt in 5 years.
Why does it bother so many people on this forum that the district has money in reserves! It makes sense! Do you realize how much it costs to replace a roof, a boiler, desks! Without this money, we would be in a world of trouble! I'm glad they don't run their checkbook like most people run theirs (without a rainy day fund).
MM1967- Don't go complaining about 30 children in a classroom and no desks and no books!!! Remember, you warned me that these children would be at my school and you are right! I told you this would happen, and now you think it's ridiculous?????? Why????
CJT-I doubt the lunchladies at Bode denied your child lunch, they can't do that. Maybe it was YOU who did not send a lunch with your child or put $$ in your child's account. Where's the accountability here? Why is it easier to blame the school????? Who is the parent?
I really feel for Dr. Smith right now. I think she's doing the best she can with the current situation and this community that she has to work with. AND if you think she's overpaid, check around, if anything, she's UNDERPAID!
August 19, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
MM1967 I'll answer the questions..." Do you think it alright for these children not to have desk and books." For the first day (probably even week), yes it's alright. The first day, especially at the elementary level is rarely reserved for "book learning". It's more about learning the new faces, rules and expectations. No one is perfect and I'm sure the district will have these items in as soon as possible.
"...have over 30 plus children in the classroom." No, it's not acceptable but without knowing what district you reside in, then it's a little tough to determine if closing the schools had any impact on that issue. Depending on the district, there may have been an existing population issue that would place 30 kids in a classroom. (Hence, the need for a new school.)
The lunch issue, I have my doubts about the student not receiving lunch but if it did happen, then it is completely unacceptable. The student should have been provided lunch until the issue was determined. Again though, no one is perfect and errors are bound to happen...but I will admit that if the student was in fact refused lunch service, that particular school's staff handled the situation very poorly.
August 19, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
You are correct I warned you these children would be in your school and I also said if they had not closed schools this would not have happened. It is nice to see that you think it is alright for these children not to have desk and books because the district did FAILED TO "PLAN".
Also why would these parents say their children did not get lunch if it did not happen to their daughter?
And Brennen I do know how much it cost to repair a boiler, a roof and keep a facility up, I do it everyday in my job and I as well have a budget to operate from.I would love to have 35.5 million dollars to work from.
As far as Mrs Smith she deserves to be on the unemployment line that is what her salary should be.
The district will get the levy back when the see changes for the good not the way things are going now.
August 19, 2009 at 9:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple
You are out of line telling a parent that they are HATERS when these kind of things are happening to their children.
It all points back to keeping school open till new ones were biult with the peoples support for a bond.You are so much for the district you are blind to what is going on in the schools.
Insideout,
I am glad you think it is alright for these children to go without desk and books for a week.
So you are saying they are not going to be working out of these books for a week?
And we want our schools to have better AYP numbers?
I feel for these students as well as the parents and if these were my children I would be very mad as well.
You all seem to miss the point the district could have got the levy last time is the sunset claus was on the ballot with the levy and not both issues at the same time.Did Mrs Smith tell this to the board I really do not know but if she did the the board is incompentant and should have listened.Now with all of this mess since Aprils election they will have one heck of a time getting the levy passed.I think our communitys children deserve a lot better than what they are getting from the board and admin.See it all points back to them.Both sides do need to work together but one side is not willing to admit defeat and work with the public.
August 19, 2009 at 10:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brennen says...
MM1967
I have heard you groan and complain and say "see I told you so, if they wouldn't have closed those schools...." yada, yada, yada.... But what I haven't heard from you is one suggestion on what CAN be done NOW. What are you doing besides sitting on the computer all hours of the night spewing hatred toward a lady that you've never had a conversation with. I've heard you say that you were proactive at your school, you "donated" things. Whoopeee!!! That's involved?
And why would that "lady" say that about her kid is beyond me, but believe me, people can misconstrue alot of things, look at this forum! Answer me this question, did she have lunch $? If she didn't, why not? Did her mom make her lunch? It doesn't take a whole lot of money to make a PBJ sandwich. I don't make judgements until I hear all the facts, but for some reason when it comes to the school district it's a free-for-all, say what you want, believe EVERYTHING your hear. Get your facts first, then decide. Excuse me, correct facts.
August 19, 2009 at 10:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,Yes I did have a issue with the admin and board. But the thing they are doing now just make me as well as other parents in the community mad.I also think things could have been handled differently and now the idstrict FAILED TO PLAN again.
You do not have any children in school and this does not affect you life at all.Also you do not know what is going on in our schools unless you do work for the district.
And lets talk about help you may look for some as well, you seem to have some Hate issues of your own toward some of us one here posting our opinions which is our right.
August 19, 2009 at 10:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - The district did not fail to "PLAN" but like nearly every plan I have ever encountered, it wasn't a PERFECT plan. Here's an idea, let's require that every student receives a list of text books they are required to have for the school year, that a desk is found on the school supply list, and parents must provide their child with these things. Then how many students would be lacking those items the first day, week, or month? I guess it's easy to complain when you're expecting something to be given to you.
I never said the parents lied but I also did not state that they provided the entire story either. Given what I know, I would be surprised if the student was flat out denied lunch. Again, I'll admit that with this school district nothing would shock me though.
Let's practice a little grade school algebra...reserve/buildings/years. 35.5 million/40/x = y. Can you tell me x or y? I'm just trying to figure out how much of the reserve the district can spend on each building this year.
August 19, 2009 at 10:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Brennen,
I am not going to stoop to your level and get into a pissing match with you,but I would like to know how you would know who I have had converstions with and who I have not?
This is a issues I firmly believe in and as I have stated the district is unwilling to work with the public to solve these issues at hand.And the WHOLE COMMUNITYS Children are the ones in the middle.
August 19, 2009 at 10:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - No, I don't fail to understand why the levy did not pass. In fact, I completely understand. However, that's water under the bridge at this point and we(the community) must deal with the situation at hand.
If you're going to quote me please at least make it an accurate quote. I stated a day without desk and books would be acceptable, a week would be stretching it in my opinion but I need to know the circumstances first.
If the first week of school is why the AYP numbers aren't were they need to be, then we've got much bigger problems.
August 19, 2009 at 10:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
I agree that district isn't willing to listen to the public but the public isn't willing to listen to the district either...and there's the problem. The public elected a group of folks that they don't trust...and then they expected things to workout great!?!
August 19, 2009 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Yes Apple your above post seems to pretty much sum it up and the community is just as mad about the same issues. So when is the district going to address them.
Lets see with you it is All of you Haters all of the time, or you people are just idiots or stupid I think that is what you have posted.Clean your own door step before you start on mine apple.
August 19, 2009 at 10:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
MM1967 - I'll assume you're the one, that just provided me with a thumbs down. So, what part of my last statement do you not agree with?
Got an opinion on my desk and books solution? How about an answer to my little math problem?
August 19, 2009 at 10:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
I did not provide you with the thumbs down my computor is not letting me vote so someone else seem not to agree with you.
August 19, 2009 at 10:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brennen says...
What I don't get here or from this community is that the sjsd asked for money to keep operating as they were currently. Money for your childs school. Then they also asked for a little extra to build 2 new schools and an addition, nice schools with air conditioning for your children. I have children in this school district also, and frankly I think they deserve better. I think the district should ask for more money. I would like to see a new middle school and a new high school! How do ya' like that MM1967! I understand what tightening your belt is, it's called paying for what's necessary and what's not. I think the schools are a necessary thing. I would tighten my belt to do that. Those same people who say they can't afford more taxes, can't afford not to.
August 19, 2009 at 10:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
reggie says...
insideout you just get more of the same for mm, no sense even trying and I'm pretty sure I will get a thumbs down too
August 19, 2009 at 10:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
MM1967 - Anyways...still no answers or suggestions on your part so there's no constructive dialogue here. Without suggestions, ideas, or answers it's nothing more than complaining.
August 19, 2009 at 10:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brennen says...
Are there any other good posts tonight, reggie? I think I'm done here.
August 19, 2009 at 10:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Look I am not against new buildings for our children,but the fact remains the current people in charge with all they have done are not going to get this money.
When new people are in place and the economy turns around then things will be different.
Look if you people have read my post WE VOTED YES/YES and will vote yes for the operating levy for the schools and the children, but to listen to the things that is happening now just make you mad as hell.
As I said in hard times you make due with what you have. You do not close school and create more issues for yourself by closing these schools like the district did.This has also caused all kinds of issues for familiys all around town not in just one area.
August 19, 2009 at 11:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
I think the "failure to plan" charge is a valid one. To redistrict, while keeping all the same buildings you had, would be difficult. But to redistrict, taking 2 buildings out, would require analytical thinking that I don't think this district has demonstrated. The stories I'm hearing of students being located in one school, then being relocated to another, with as much distance as Skaith to Mark Twain, just strikes me as not well thought out. If the district is wanting good will from parents, who were being forced to endure redistricting, I would have thought the plan would have been to move to the closest possible schools. I have heard stories of Neely students, winding up at Hyde, Skaith, Parkway, Hall, and Humboldt. Relating to shortages of books and desks, and it being a relatively minor problem. IF IT IS MY CHILD, IT IS DARNED SURE MORE THAN JUST A MINOR PROBLEM. This also brings us to the fact that 3 schools remaining open DIDN'T meet AYP and the 2 schools that closed DID meet AYP. I'd say the district's astuteness didn't come across too well. By the way, is Coleman REALLY not in the Coleman district? I keep hearing this.
August 19, 2009 at 11:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - I'm glad to hear you voted yes/yes and many of the decisions the SJSB has made could have been done much differently. I agree that a stern look needs to be placed on replacing several, if not all, of the board members when their terms expire. In my opinion, continuing to push for their replacement is a good (great) thing but the approach needs to be re-evaluated. Pointing out their flaws is completely acceptable but turning back the hands of time is basically impossible. We, the community, must determine how to move forward with the present situation and that is two fewer schools which has been clearly stated all along would close regardless of the levy passing or failing. If there was an issue with that, then there should have been a driving force, at the time, to keep the schools open. Instead, the community played it off as a bluff and it wasn't.
August 20, 2009 at 12:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
For those with an issue over the book shortage, I'm sure that neither the SJSD nor the book manufacturer would have an issue with you buying the textbooks for your child. But considering I have not heard anyone offering to do that for THEIR child, I must assume that it's not nearly as big of an issue as what's being made of it.
It's yet another catch 22 for the district...if they would have purchased to many books, then there would be a different segment of the population complaining that the district wasted money by purchasing items that were not needed.
Every district does the best they can to predict their enrollment numbers before the school year starts but it's exactly that a prediction...they can be wrong.
Furthermore, the reaction is as if this has never happened before and the fact is that it happens every year with one subject or another. I'll be honest, the only reason I cracked open a school book on the first day, was to flip through the pages...not one time in my elementary school days do I recall having a homework assignment on the first day or for that matter in the first week that required a school book.
August 20, 2009 at 12:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
stjoenative says...
and we wonder why our public schools are "failing". How can we criticize our teachers and students for failing (and believe me district administrators DO), when we always excuse the district itself for its failures?
Success starts at and is modeled from the top. We need to hold THEM accountable. Failing seems to be the norm in St. Joseph...
August 20, 2009 at 5:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
"Quote from yougottabekiddingme "On the first issue, the guy who independently audited the schools financials stated that they have more than enough money in reserves to keep spending as they had been spending for the next two years and still have enough money left in reserves to be financially stable. Why are there sacrifices being made? And why aren't the administrators bearing some of the burden of the cuts??"
This is complete inaccurate information. First of all, that is the complete opposite of what the audit said. It said that at present the school district will be bankrupt in 1-2 years without the .63. If the levy passes it will be bankrupt in 5 years."
------------------------------------------------------
brennan, the district has enough in reserves and other income to operate through year 2013-2014 , then it will have fallen below the $12 million which defines stress. both the superintendent and the cfo agreed on this at a several meetings. even if the voters approve the sunset levy of .63 in november, the district will continue to spend down the reserves, and only one additional school year will be funded, with the district "in stress" by 2015.
the district was always going to be trouble with the .63 because they had planned to deficit spend and to prop up the inadequate .63 cents by spending into the reserve.
i feel sorry for all the teachers in this. they are all functioning at a high level and should be commended for their hard work.
as for textbooks, i believe the district buys them in a cycle, and if it is a last year the students sometimes share.
August 20, 2009 at 6:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Orliandor says...
Does that prediction of bankruptcy in 5 years assume no pay increase for teachers during that time? If so, the districts 30 minutes south are doing handsprings.
Why would a teacher worth a spit stay in this mess when they could earn 10 to 15 thousand more in and around KC? Those districts will get to pick the best we have and snatch them up.
August 20, 2009 at 6:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
mm, the question on the books and desks is not do they have enough but rather are they in the right place. Remember we have no more students than last year but the question is where they show up for school. Looking at the article today show just what happens ... someone decides that morning and doesn't tell the district in advance. Many transferred at the last moment due to the AYP issue. This is not an instant lightening quick kind of a problem. Student have to be assigned to a classroom, teacher notified, etc. The district can not staff it's maintenance employees based on an instant response. What do you do with those employees the remainder of the year? On the school lunch, that was a poor response by the lunch employee of the district. You seem to be one of those who take the position that the "working folks" types in the district are never wrong. Well, this one really screwed up.
Dilly, you repeated state "I heard" type comments that are often false. Much of your statements like Coleman not being in its own district are easily verified by seconds of online research (say the district website). Have the common consideration to check out things prior to posting. Maybe someone would believe you in the future.
August 20, 2009 at 7:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CJT says...
Brennen - Wrong on all counts. More than a month worth of money in the account and no issues with her ability to pay for a lunch. I think she finished 6th grade with a credit if for some reason they did not process the check.
August 20, 2009 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CJT says...
238er
In 2007, Melody Smith went on record as giving up money that was supposed to go to the school system so that the developers could make modifications on Cook Road. It was pretty obvious that the school system gave up the money based upon the articles in the paper. It was around May of 2007 if memory serves me correctly.
August 20, 2009 at 7:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CJT says...
Apple Regarding your comments. Perhaps if the heads of our administration were focused on the job they were paid to do versus being politicians then they would not be breaking election guidelines.
As far as the overcrowding - it appears there is plenty of capacity. I can even live with the overcrowding. What I find unacceptable is the complete failure of the district administration to react to the situation versus sitting back and letting the chaos occur because they did not get the money they need.
The teachers know that they have our support as far as $ and time. To bad that the district is working to engineer a disaster for their own political benefit.
To date I still have yet to hear how any levy is going to be used. I deal in multi million dollar budgets with accountability to thousands in business projects. Where is a specific business plan? Didn't the system have a contingency? We have closed schools. We knew there was going to be some shuffling of resources. Maybe instead of practicing politics, our district leaders should have rolled up their sleaves and ensured resources were in place.
August 20, 2009 at 7:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Sidamo says...
If anyone really thinks the community doesn't share the frustration of several posters here, you are not talking to many voters (parents and teachers). In contact with parents and teachers on a regular basis I have yet to find someone indifferent or in favor of the school board's choices in the last 5 months. I have contact with parents and/or teachers from Coleman, Field, Pershing, Parkway, Skaith and Ellison. Exactly none of them are pleased, and most have an earful to say. The group here you call "Haters" are a few who reflect a strong undercurrent in our city. The goal is responsibility, straightforwardness, planning and communication. Field and Coleman are at or near 30 students per most classes. Coleman is used to it, Field is not.
August 20, 2009 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Sidamo,
some people on here just will not believe the fact that there are other people in the community that believe what the district has done is wrong.
These are also the same people who must not listen to the public very well and must not have any children involved with this mess the district has caused.
Now for those of us who want answers and create some waves are getting called STUPID, IDIOTS AS WELL AS HATRERS.The people who are doing this you know who you are.
I do not think any of us so called haters are against our schools,the children,or the teachers and our schools principles and admin.
Most people want to exactly what you have posted above. Some people find it acceptable what the district is doing to our children and our schools. I personally find it very unacceptable and think they need to fix the problems they created or resign.
I do not ever remember our schools being so messed up and never remember such a self centered board and district administration.
August 20, 2009 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
Brennen - nope, you are wrong on that one. I have seen the projections by the district without the .63 levy, the district won't be bankrupt in two years. They had two years to regroup and come up with a plan and get buy in from the community.
August 20, 2009 at 9:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
CJT, well you are wrong on the TIF. The district does not have a veto. It has a seat on the TIF Commission. The City Council gets to enact the TIF and control the terms. It you would go to the City website you can read the terms of this TIF. There are things like PILOTs (payment in lieu of taxes, etc.) which will funnel money to the district. Dr. Smith merely accepted reality that there was going to be a TIF out there. Without some serious analysis which you have failed to do prior to making an unsupported statement like Dr. Smith giving away money that doesn't exist you should do some research. Hopefully you don't work for me, I expect a little more from my employees.
Also this TIF is going to pay for improvements that the district needed to the roads, etc.
August 20, 2009 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
I nmy budget I am held accountable for the money I spend on cpital project as well on everyday maintenance to our corp offices and our corp engineering.
Also there is a big difference we are in the private sector and get no tax payer dollars and the district is funded by the tax payer so yes they should show us where the money is going.
I am glad to see that you think We are still haters and you are blind to what is going on in our schools.The biggest thing is overcrowding anfd I think this is going on at alot of the schools today.So apple we may need new schools but face it we are not going to get any anytime soon and there is one hell of a problem with what is going on. Just because people do not come on here and post does not mean there are not plenty of issues going on.See most people will speak in November. Last Apple you are lost and do not see what is going on in the schools around town and in the classroom and how each schools classrooms have grown in size.I know you will say this is our fault in reality it is not the district knew this would happen and they want us to suffer and our children to suffer and this is how the majority of the public percieves it like it or not.OK apple before you call me a hater I will do it for you.You are unwilling to listen to the public like the district is.Our district had the money to keep these schools open this year and further years till a soultion was in place not act so quickly and harshly and create all of this mess in all of our Elementary schools.They would not be Bankrupt in the next 2 years with these school open.
August 20, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
"In mentioning Friday night's high school jamboree, Dr. Smith compared the current struggles of the school district to battles on the football field."
Agreed - and sometimes, you have to recognize when it is time to replace your quarterback.
August 20, 2009 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
music4602 says...
"I do not ever remember our schools being so messed up and never remember such a self centered board and district administration."
I have no idea if you were around MM, when superintendent Randy Dewar held the office in the 80's. That man spent nearly every dime the district had put in reserve when Troester was the super. The state put us on their distressed list, our district lost it's accreditation and only after years of politiking and hand shaking was Colgan able to get a levy increase passed after numerous attempts to do so. Yes, even when our district had been put in that dire strait it took many attempts before a ballot issue was passed.
St. Joe's got it rough man, there's no sarcasm in that comment, just the way it is, to quote a recently departed StJ native. There are many people who struggle for a better life here. Poverty and the working poor and the senior population make up a vast majority of this city's population. I understand how it can be a hardship to continually come up with more tax dollars for the schools, the city government, and increases in utilities, who also think everyone but them should tighten their belts in this economic downturn. The fact is St. Joe has been in an economic turndown for about 40 years now, which is about the last time a new school was built here.
Somehow, some way, there IS a solution to this debacle. I think it starts with civil dialogue and pro district debate. As you well know this is OUR district, not Dr. Smith's and not Mrs. Watson's. Let's start thinking in terms of it being OUR district and OUR responsibility to fix it. If that means new board members then so be it. If it requires a new administration then let's put that out on the table. The Board Members, by charter, are the people's representatives. Changes to the district by will-of-the-citizens goes through that channel. Start talking to your friends and neighbors now. Let's find out who really has ideas that will end this cycle and let's get them on that Board.
August 20, 2009 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Music4602,
I was around in the 80s I grew up here and been here all of my life with the expeption of a few years. I was in Middle school and High School during the early 80,s.So no I do not remember this my parent probably do but they are gone.
I agree there has to be a solution to this and it is our district,but the fact remain the board that works for us are puppets of Mrs Smith.
This vicous cycle needs to end for our communitys childrens education I will never fight against that.
There needs to be change and the current board could start that now.
The reason I am so mad is their unwillingness to work with the public or even communicate with us.We get this is the way it is like it or not attitude and I personally do not understand this.
Especially when the district is asking for new taxes you do not piss people off.
Communication is the key here and willingness to listen not act like a bunch of school yard bullies.
August 20, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
I think it is time to bring someone from the outside in. We need to find someone who has successfully dealt with issues like this in some other district and we need to hire them. Plus, the BOE/Admin has lost all credibility with the community so it will help with their PR problem as well to do a little housecleaning. IMO.
August 20, 2009 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gmatheresa says...
I understand change of any kind is stressful for everyone. I do however, think this is a very unfortunate time for the elementary kids, teachers and support personnel in the SJSD. I am seeing first hand the stress it is causing some of the students. My grandson went from a classroom of 16 to a class of 30. He suffers from Asbergers Syndrome and has severe anxiety issues. I requested a transfer from the school he had been assigned back to the school he had attended. We had to move last year, but are working to move back into his old district once our lease is up in October. I was told by the principal that no decisions would be made the first 3 days of school. My request was denied the next day. And how in the world can the school board say that daycare is not a hardship? I work and now I am going to lose an 1.5 hrs of pay each day because of this. Hopefully, I won't lose my job. But if I do, maybe the school board can supplement my income since daycare is not considered a hardship??? Ha! Ha!
August 20, 2009 at 10:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Gmatheresa,
This is exactly the way the admin is treating people. There has been rumor of transfers granted and all kinds of things but if you ask the district you get no answer or they do not communicate with you.We feel for you and hope you can get your situation worked out for your grandson. Yougottabekiddingme said it best someone from the outside needs to come in and get a handle on this situation and take over and the board/admin has lost all and I mean all credibility with the public.There also needs to be a little house cleaning downtown as well.
August 20, 2009 at 10:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
music4602 says...
Yes MM Communication is a real problem that the BOE/ADMIN has not figured out. No offense to Heritage intended but opening up board meetings to the public, add the few citizens who are creating task forces and citizen commitees, which many assume to be in bed with the BoE already, and that's been the extent of it. The BoE/Admin must go TO the people, not expect the people to come to them. That is a superior mindset and a superior mindset is the last thing the district needs right now. Even open neighborhood forums are not capturing the sufficient attention of the population. Most get their information from IQ2 and NGP. Cable (channel 3) is becoming quite a competitor too.
I propose the district get more information out through these resources as well as a school newsletter that is not mailed bulk and actually arrives in your home on a timely basis instead of getting it the month after it was intended.
A cohesive plan of action is being demanded by the citizenry and the response from the BoE/Admin is either non existent or at the very least, less than adequate.
I'm not sure who/which board seats are up for election in April, I have heard maybe only a single board seat. I'd like to know if that is true, if there is a board member election in April.
August 20, 2009 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
music4602 says...
Ha, I typed ngp instead of npg, dang, and I try to act like an edumacated one on here. Sorry News-Press/Gazette.
August 20, 2009 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
akm says...
Are new desks being purchased or are they transferring them from the two closed schools??
August 20, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
What really is amazing these people sit downtown knowing what is going on out in the community and what people are saying and act if like nothing is wrong.I just do not get it. You would think they would want to smooth the public over. To me it proves just how much they are out of touch with what is going on. Or this is exactly what they want.They should be using our local news outlets and communicating with the public not have the task force and their money in bed with them and not communicating. It is time for change and change needs to happen now Mrs Watson,Mr Rucker,Miss/Mrs Siemens,Mr Blakley,Miss/Mrs Moore, Mr Snethen, and Miss/Mrs Wagner listen to the public for a change not your well of people and the admin, look where that has gotten you all replaced sooner than later.
August 20, 2009 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple, Why do you not qiut questioning people some of you questions directed to gmatheresa above are not any of your business.
August 20, 2009 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
music4602
I think if I remember right the board seats up for re-election is Mr Ruckers and Mr Blakleys.
August 20, 2009 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
If you move out of your school's district you have no room to complain.
On the transfer I'm sure the principal told her what they beleived the timing would be, but if it didn't meet the criteria then the denial is an easy decision and should it be communicated as quick as possible to allow quick finality rather than a couple more days in limbo?
I'm sure the desks are being moved but then you need to know how many, what size, what type, etc.
August 20, 2009 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
music4602 says...
Thanks MM. I wonder what would happen if no one steps up and runs for those seats. I can see a scenario playing out that no one would WANT to be on that Board.
August 20, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gmatheresa says...
to Apple: I wasn't blaming the school district for the move I had to make. The house we were renting last year was sold, so I am trying desperately to move back into the district to a home that I can afford. My lease is up in October and I can't afford to lose my deposit. I choose to pay my own way and not live off the taxpayers dollar. I am trying to provide as stable environment as I can for my grandson, therefore, not changing schools in 60 days and creating more stress. And if you must know with your snide comment about family dysfunction, show me a family that doesn't have some sort of dysfunctional relationships. At least our family takes care of its own and not asking anyone else to take on the burden....
August 20, 2009 at 11:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gmatheresa says...
Apology accepted. I just needed to vent about my frustrations about the whole situation. I was trying to play by the rules, but felt my request was just given lip service, not looked at sincerely on an individual basis. I know it can be easy to assume and generalize, but there are a lot of good people out there wanting to do the best for their kids and grandkids. Everyone needs to start taking responsibility for their actions - parents and school board alike. That is what I try to teach daily. Communication about all the issues and dialogue about possible solutions is the only way to work through this problem.
August 20, 2009 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CJT says...
238er I view it pretty simply. The TIF as you describe it took money away from the schools. The Superintendent supported the TIF. Therefore the Superintendent supported the activity to take money away from the schools. Pretty simple logical equation from Logic 101.
Even if she was the sole vote rejecting knowing that there was a referendum coming where she was asking for more money I would have felt more supportive.
I agree that the changes had to happen on Cook Road and I "applaud" the ability of a company to get someone else to do and pay for the work for their benefit. I guess that is what they justify as business.
238er - I doubt I would work for you - you couldn't afford me. What I do believe in is accountability - something that I don't see in our school board and administration. When I have set very unpopular levies in the past I spent hours talking to my constituents and ensuring that they knew why we go there and how were we getting out of the problem. Where is the access to the Board? Why isn't the Administration laying out a plan? Frankly, I don't care about the cost of funding the schools. Go ahead and double the cost - AND MANAGE IT CORRECTLY.
August 20, 2009 at 12:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CJT says...
Apple
My last note got gobbled up in the ether and I am unfortunately running out of time during my lunch but will squeeze in a less well thought out response. My apologies in advance for the typing...
I would welcome the opportunity to go to a board meeting but don't know when they occur. I assume it is during the day during the work hours?
I would welcome the chance to see a specific plan. I never saw something that said, "This is what we did with the current levy that would not have happened without it." I heard lots of the world will end if you don't give us the money.
I see lots of teachers trying to get projects done. I want to see that and support that in any way that I can and stand behind the teachers. My wife and I are happy to support them any way we can.
I would love for someone to explain why we even have a levy for general operating funds. Why aren't we debating the cost of the school tax versus the cost of a levy on top of the school tax? I have only seen levies for specific projects like a renovation or building a gym.
Finally, I never stated that the district was making money on real estate deals. I stated that they were giving away money. Feel free to reread my posts - I did just in case I made a mistatement.
August 20, 2009 at 1:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
cjt, if you want to stay on top of school events and meetings keep checking sjsd.com every once in a while. the meetings are posted there.
August 20, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
It had to hurt for you to aplogize to gmatheresa how about the other people you have called names.I do not see and sincerity in your apoligy sorry.
August 20, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
angeris says...
I am very concerned that people are not aware of when board meetings occur? How can complaints be made about how the district operates when they post each board meeting and its agenda on the sjsd web site. If you miss the meeting you can go to the boards site and see the minutes of the meeting. The link is right on the SJSD website.
If I remember correctly the last time there was a school board elections less than 9,000 people came out to vote? If people really wanted change they would be more involved. I remember the candidates were all over the TV with ads, yet so few came out to vote.
August 20, 2009 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justsayin says...
The link to the Board of Education's archive and calendar:
http://www.boarddocs.com/mo/sjsd/Boar...
You can read all of their minutes, see their meeting schedule, and the agenda for any upcoming meetings. BOE meetings are generally held on the second Monday of each month at 5:30 p.m. at the District offices in the Downtown Library Building, 925 Felix, 2nd floor.
August 20, 2009 at 6:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
In the first place this is the kind of things you do all of the time to people. Maybe you do not see it but people on here are telling you this. We are all Haters,Stupid.Idiots.I am still confused to why you are such a strong supporter of the district and the board if you do not work for them you must be on this task force and I hope that is not true because you will not help their cause the levy would fail just because of you being on the task force.
You have some underlying reason so tell the people on here what it is.
Better yet why do you not tell us what your plan is to solve all of these issues the district or as you say the public has created and how you would implement your plan.
August 20, 2009 at 9:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
The district admin and board will not get a 63 cent levy and no way in heck would they ever get 1.25.New people will get the 63 cent but they would not even get 1.25.
August 20, 2009 at 10:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - I'm still waiting to hear your plan...
August 20, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
INSIDEOUT,
To make things short and to the point there can be no plan till we have new board members that are willing to listen to the public and we have new administrators as well that are trusted,then the district can work on a plan.
There is a sever trust issue with all of these folk at this point and no matter how hard and how long they plan the public will not support them.There is a communication issue as well that comes out of the district offices,they do not communicate.
These are my opinions but also what I hear out in the public a bunch.
August 20, 2009 at 10:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
They have money that will last 3 years or more.Well also you know these people know they do not have the public support they could save the time and resign.
Also Title 1 schools that do not met are the only ones who can transfer.
This is just as good of a plan they had that created this mess isnt it.
August 20, 2009 at 11:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
music4602 says...
"This is just as good of a plan they had that created this mess isnt it."
Seriously MM, that's it? This is as good of a plan they had created this mess?
After all you've typed you're proposing a plan that is just as good as the plan that got us into this mess?
Do you think these disenfranchised people want a plan that is just as good as the district's plan which, oh by the way, you can't stand?!!!
Really.
August 20, 2009 at 11:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - The district had a much better than the suggested "wait and complain" plan you have offered. However, you are spot on about the communication issues; the SJSB did an extremely poor job of communicating the plan to the voters. The trust problems are deeply engrained in the SJSD history and it will take an extraordinary group of folks to overcome that but it's possible.
I agree that much of the board needs to be replaced but the community, the children, and the district cannot make it with a 2-3 year "wait" period followed by the hopes of a mere .63 cent levy with a sunset clause.
Furthermore, the reality of this situation is that it's highly unlikely any of the board members are going to resign and sitting around waiting for a resignation or a term to expire only puts the community and children that much further behind.
When the SJSB and administration do not act in the community's interest then we should shine a spotlight on it but that does not mean making mountains out of mole hills.
If you're interested in having the board members replaced, then do the research to see what it takes for the community to remove them and start a group working towards that goal.
You've stated numerous times your concern is the children but the "wait and complain" plan only does further harm. Set an example and show the children how to take a bad situation and turn it around in a timely fashion. The support is there but the community is still lacking an effective leader to gather the forces.
August 20, 2009 at 11:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Insideout,
I do not disagree with you the wait till new member are on the board maybe to long but the reality is that this is probably what the citizens(voters) are going to do.People are mad at them,do not trust them,and as everyday passes the board and admin do not help their cause.See the dark cloud that they said was hanging over the district is already here just because of their actions.Some areas of town will support the levy but the majority will not.So if they really cared they would resign and help the schools out.
August 21, 2009 at 7:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
All the people you refer to as silent have spoken and will not at this point be quite, maybe just maybe we want to take our community back from the likes of you and your buddies.Guess what we will when it is time to vote for Board members for the school district,mayor,ect.People like you have been in charge to long and look at the state of our community, schools one hell of a mess,no jobs coming to town because the city attracks employers like Triumph Foods that employees people from outside of the community.Not tot mention resteraunts and retail jobs. No good manufacturing job. Remember a company called SMITH ELECTRIC VEHICLES they were looking at St Joseph and chose Kansas City over St Joseph when we had skill and qualified people here from Snorkel and Altec that could have done these job.And this is not the fault of the citizen that they went to KC it is our city goverments and chamber of commerece doings.To much damn old money here that think they run the town.Guess what I think those days are coming to a end.How does it feel to be on the other end for a change?
August 21, 2009 at 11:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - You are correct, the community will sit around until the terms expire but why? The reality is that not one board member is going to resign and sitting around hoping for such an event is akin to waiting to win the lottery. I continually hear complaining but I have not witnessed much action. Has all of society actually reached a point where they would rather wait and complain, than take action to resolve the issue? (Complaining is not constructive action.)
Time and time again, I have heard everyone state how concerned they are about the children but as adults no one has been able to put their petty differences aside and focus on the real issue...the education of our future. In fact, I've seen children work in a more constructive manner.
August 21, 2009 at 8:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
insideout,
The reason the community will sit around and wait to these people terms are expired and are replaced is because of trust and their unwillingness to work with the public.And you are right these board member should resign and save the schools because the public is sick of their actions.And yes this is the point I personally believe the community is at wait and complain and when these people are replaced then take action. Or the cirrent people can admit defeat and that they were wrong in what they have done and correct the issues and gain the public trust which I personally believe is to late.Somebody asked where is DR SMITH and why is she hiding? Why is she not using our local media outlets to address the public and tell us what they are going to do to correct their mistakes and what they are going to do to clean up thier mess.
But you have to admit they have created a mess and they have no communication skill and this bully attitude is the wrong thing to be doing.
I was taught that if you did something and you firmly believed in it then you stad behind it and stand up for it and not run and hide. This what the district people are doing running and hiding.
August 21, 2009 at 8:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - The reason the people will wait has nothing to do with their trust but everything to do with their priorities. If the children were truly the priority, then there's nothing (trust or otherwise) that would stop them from putting words into action today. Let me ask you, if your child was being held at gunpoint, would you...
a)wait to see what the gunmen was going to do
b)complain that he/she had a gun
c)immediately take action to save your child's life.
You said, "I was taught that if you did something and you firmly believed in it then you stad behind it and stand up for it and not run and hide"
By waiting you are running (or hiding) from it. To not be would mean you are actively organizing folks to resolve the issue:which I'm not seeing.
August 21, 2009 at 9:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Insideout,
you know you do not need to ask the above question, you know the answer to it. But this is a totally different situation with the board and administration. They are crocked,lie to the public,not trusted to do anything at this point,and in just plain words have just oissed to many of our communitys parents off.Not to mention their unwillingness to work with the public or even answer questions.Like a simple one since you have created one hell of a mess how are you going to clean it up.Our school is not one of the school NCLB studentscould transfer to and we are pushing being over the maxium number of students allowed in our school and this is just not our school it is all of them. So before all of this school closings happened I would have thought they would have studied the impact first before they acted and created all of this mess. Now they said no transfers and no teacjher transfers and then they tried to slip the teachers transfers back in there. Now howcan you trust them to do what they say when they lie right to the communitys face and then turn around and do what they say they are not going to do?Listen the public is not the creater of this mess the district admin and board is now they need to admit they were wrong and fix this damn mess before the public will pass any levys or bond issues for them and until them they will have to use their ssurplus they have enough money till 2012,or 2013 or maybe a year further out this is what they said a school board meeting.So for those that think they will be out of money tommorrow they will not.Will the children be the ones in the middle of this sure they will but the public has given enough for these people now it is their turn resign and let someone who has experience with straighting these kinds of issues out in there.
I was going to vote for the levy but due to the boards actions as well as Dr Smiths I will now be voting no like the majority of the community will even thou I have children in school. Even if they get the levy the schools will still be overcrowded and it will not help this mess out at all. The issue for new schools will not happen for years so our schools will be overcrowded for years unless School are reopened and used as schools for our elementary students.
August 21, 2009 at 10:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
It's not a different situation; a child's education is life or death because it provides the tools they will need to survive as an adult. There are a lot of great teachers in the SJSD but how many pay freezes will they endure? In this world of technology, what happens when the district cannot afford the technology it needs to train the children?
I've never stated that the community was the creator of this "mess" but as my parents always taught me:it takes two to tango. If the community, as a whole, was more active in the SJSD, then there's a good chance we wouldn't be here today. Unfortunately, the majority only gets involved every five years when it's going to hit their pocket book. Then they state how concerned they are about the children but if they were so concerned, then where were they 1,2,3, or 4 years ago when the district was making the decisions they are complaining about today?
Maybe, the district can make it until 2012, 2013, or 2040 but at what cost? When does the belt get so taught that it cuts off circulation to the head (or are already there)? I don't suspect that they will be completely out of money this year, next year, or in the future but how far behind do we have to fall before we decide to catch up? Ever tried to run a race against someone with a two or three minute head start? Was it easy to catch up? We can be asked to do a little today or a lot more tomorrow.
Change is always difficult but it is a necessary evil.
August 21, 2009 at 11:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Insideout,
You are correct change is difficult but the way things have happened since May 2009 this is a change that did not have to happen the way it did. I am not the one here saying I would not like to work and support the district it is the otherway around and yes it takes two to tango.I am sorry we have different outlooks on this issue but the fact remains there is one heck of a mess and I have not heard of a solution from the board or admin on how they are going to correct it with what they have now.All I have heard is we need more money and new schools.The public told them no in April and then they got vendictive with the public.The only way this overcrowding issue is going to be taken care of is reopen schools till new ones are built. But they will not amidt defeat and that they made a mistake.So the levy is not going to help with the overcrowding issues.Children suffer, teachers and principles jobs are harder ect ect and their employer created it for them.
And when this levy does not pass it will not be the publics fault,it will be the districts fault.
You see I was going to support the levy but the board and the admins actions have gotten no better over the last couple of months and the mess has gotten worse as everyday goes by and still no communication from the district.So I can be just as stubborn as they can. The community will not pass this for them at this point all you have to do is look,listen in the community and it is pretty easy to figure that one out.
August 22, 2009 at 5:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - The kicker is that you and I do not have extremely different outlooks on this issue. In fact, from our exchanges I think there are tons of points we strongly agree on. Although, I agree with you, the difference is that I am pushing for the wheels to start moving today rather than complaining and waiting. Start organizing, creating a plan, and gaining momentum today.
I think it's pretty clear that passage of the levy in November is questionable at best. Given that, then why doesn't the community start gathering and planning towards the future? What harm does it do? If the levy does indeed fail, then you're a few steps ahead of the game. If the levy passes, then at least you have gotten individuals involved, interested, and more educated on the topic. If you ask me, that's a win-win regardless of the outcome in November.
In this entire levy issue, I have not seen one group sit down and come up with an overall list of the community's issues:that's where it has to start. From there, you find the points that a majority can agree upon and you start gaining momentum. Then the group focuses on two things:1)Compromising and resolving the open issues. 2)Communicating with the large public to dispel myths about the district. The latter involves intensely engaging media (print, video, and internet) sources, even if this requires taking out ad space because they will not willing publish it. It sounds simple but of course it's extremely difficult. However, if it can be pulled off, then at the end of the day you have your plan that the community can and will support which will put the SJSD where the community feels it needs to be.
August 22, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Insideout,
I have no problem with the wheels moving today I just think there needs to be change downtown and the levy it is to early for it to be put back to the public with the mess that is going on now with the schools.And these issues need dealt with before we can move forward.
If this levy was to wait till after the board elections than passed then the revenue is still not going to come in till 2011 just as if it was to pass in November of this year they will not get any revenue off of it till 2011.If we get 2 new board members and they can gain the public trust I believe this is the way to go. And all of this could start today and really needs to start as soon as possible.Look I am not some monster that does not care about our communitys children because I do and they are our future.I have children at the elementary level and will have for several years to come and I want the best for them as well as the rest of our communitys children.And yes there needs to be people from all sides of this town working together for this issue for the schools not just any one area all areas.But I personally do not believe this task force represents all areas of this community.Look I grew up in the southside of town allthough I do not live there any longer we always beleived that the city could have cared a less about us people in the southend.This reminds me of that and what the school district has done to our communitys schools, children, their familys and not to mention the hardship this has put on some of our communitys familys and they have a attitude like we do not care about your problems this has created for you deal with it.So when I see some of the things the district has done and some of the things they have said like Mrs Patterson did with a statement about the children from the schools who could transfer this says to me they do not care.She said 75% of these students either recieve free or reduced lunches, so what did she mean that these children were poor and could not learn this is why these schools did not pass.So it seems as if these folks do not care and are not willing to work with people and listen.But there needs to be some conclusion to this and it is going to take a lot of work to resolve all of these issues that have arisen since May of this year.
August 22, 2009 at 10:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
As I have been reading these comments, one thought consistently goes through my mind...yes, voting for the levy or bond is voting for the children. The problem here is not that the children will decide where the money goes or how it is spent. That is the downtown administration's job. It does not belong to the task force. It is not the responsibility of door-to-door volunteerers. It is the school board and the downtown office who will decide what to do with OUR money. It would seem to me you would have to trust that they will do everything in their power to be good stewards with the money they get. I would think that would mean things like freezing the hiring of administrators, freezing the purchase of new furniture for administrative personel, and concentrating only on improvements on school buildings where children are. How often do school administrators, in the main office, actually eat lunch in one of their school buildings, as opposed to eating in restaurants around town? Wouldn't it be great for students to see members of the downtown office and school board eating in their school cafeteria and interacting with them and their teachers. Can you imagine the excitement of children going home and telling their parents that they had shared Frenchfries with Dr. Smith today? For those of you so concerned about inaccuracies in the newspaper...that personal public relations would be more effective than anything said in the newspaper.
August 23, 2009 at 10:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
dillygent1
I think you touched on alot of good points. I wish these people would just listen to some of them as well as what is going on and parents concerns.I remember awhile back I was such a stong supporter for the levy with the sunset, but at this point and seeing what is going on I feel and these are my opinions that the community would be better off waiting till we have a least 2 new board members that will listen to the public and try to instill some trust and then work on a long term plan that wil benefit our children for years to come.I see you touched on freezinf the sdministrators being hired I would like to see some of them take a pay cut as well as a pay freeze like the teachers had to.Again great points.
August 23, 2009 at 11:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
Dillygent1 - If that last sentence was directed towards me, then you're not keeping up. I completely agree that the SD needs major help in the PR world and I have stated as much in several post. Your suggestion would be very effective for the audience it touches but its effectiveness would be limited by things the NP prints.
There's only a handful of folks that the student would communicate with versus the thousands that read the paper. For example, take a 21 or 25 yr old, who may not know anyone with school age children to hear those stories but they read the paper. Exactly, which direction do you think their viewpoint is going to lean?
Like I said, the SD needs help but they can't do it alone. They also need assistance from the other groups that help mold and guide the community's opinion.
August 24, 2009 at 12:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Insideout, I wasn't aiming at any one individual. Children do have voting parents, and those are the parents that the school district must aim to. They have a partnership and interest in the child doing well. When you depend solely on the media, for your public relations, you run the risk of what your article is going to look or sound like. It is going to be based upon the reporter's bias and personal interpretation. I have always felt that the best publicity is often word of mouth and observation. By not relating in person, to the public, and letting the public find out about them [the school district]and their plans, they [the school district] in effect becomes a slave of whatever that reporter wants to write or say. Look what being willing to attend different meetings, and talking to people, in person, has done for Dennis Snethen.Is the job of the newspaper and other media, to be the cheerleader of the school district or is it to report the news and improve circulation?
August 24, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Thanks MM, I like your comments, too.Keep commenting. Remember, the squeeky wheel gets the grease. Persistence [especially where you children are concerned] is a virtue.
August 24, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
Just wondering the reaction of folks if the district hired a PR firm and incurred this expense.
August 24, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Personally, I doubt that the school district would listen to a PR firm, because it might tell them things they don't want to hear. A PR firm is only one tool in the bag. The best public relations for the St. Joseph School District, are the people IN it. If they believe in their product, it will be sold. Don't most people hire a PR firm, when they think they have a good product and are just trying to expand? I had an advertising salesman tell me, one time, that advertising is basically for the people who ALREADY use that particular product-- to keep that product's name in the public. Somehow, after reading these comments, I doubt that the school district needs a PR firm, that badly, because ...Boy, do we know who THEY are! THEY are NOT suffering from UNDERexposure.
August 24, 2009 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
dilly, most PR firms are about packaging your story so that it gets out and then getting it out. They are professionals at how to handle the media and in focusing your story so that it is understood. There are different than advertising firms. Also, there are PR firms that specialize in trouble situations. Think HP when they were caught wiretapping their board members.
The district's spokes people do need training. Dr. Smith does a poor job of interviews and off the cuff speaking. She needs some training on how to handle these situations. The District also needs to get her to focus and stay on point. Of course, her ego is such that she probably won't listen to this advice.
August 24, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
"Of course, her ego is such that she probably won't listen to this advice."
238er, i told you we agree more often than not.
August 24, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
This may be off the subject a little but her ego is a issue but she also has no morals,values,or respect for the parents and children in the district.Also no willingness to work with the public or communicate or even listen.She act as if she is little miss goody to shoes to the public.
August 24, 2009 at 11:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
I'm sorry, but I still think Ken Reeder and his PR firm got way too much credit for the defeat of the April election. Keep in mind that that same firm tried to defeat a levy in Platte County, not too long ago, and the issue passed (that they were trying to defeat). I honestly believe that Smith did not understand the true complexities of her position when she was hired. She did not understand the dealing-with-the-public aspect of it. And, what's worse...I don't think any of her immediate subordinates understand about dealing with the public, either. The EVIDENCE is NOT THERE. One of my complaints about the school district is...the only power they seem to know how to use is strong-arm and vindictiveness. It's kind of that old military thing...BELIEVE IT BECAUSE I SAID IT---AND I'M THE BOSS[SO OF COURSE I'M RIGHT.]
August 24, 2009 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
catwoman says...
The following comes from the mouth of my 9 year old. "When someone wants a job with the St. Joe School Board they say 'OK, take this pill' then the person goes to sleep and they take part of their brain out. Then they have the job."
I thought it was funny, cynical but funny.
August 24, 2009 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
dillygent1 - It is the newspaper's duty to report the news. I am not suggesting that the newspaper always be a cheerleader for the district. I am asking the same thing of them, that I ask of the SD, you, myself, and anyone else...be fair and honest. I have come down on the SD many times but I have also supported them when they do right. To read the paper, one would think that the SD never does anything right and despite what some think that's simply not true.
Without a doubt, no reporter (or article) is ever completely neutral but the paper has shown a tendency to slant nearly every article, good or bad, against the district. The paper is a business based upon profits but they are also a source that forms public opinion and as such, in my opinion, they have a duty to the public to be fair in their reporting. When their profits, take precedence over the well-being of the community then they provide an injustice to the community. As the community bleeds from that injustice the papers profits will fall. In many instances, what's good for the community is good for the paper. Let's face it, there's enough negative news in this town and world that a few neutral or positive articles about the SJSD is not going to harm their readership but it very will could have a major positive impact the on SD.
August 24, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
And now your group the task force is going to be defeated.Next time maybe the district will listen. But hopefully when this levy fails they will finally get it and look at replacing some people to get our schools back in order.
August 24, 2009 at 1:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
THIS 9 year old above has hit the nail right on the head.Plus she gave me one heck of a laugh. But these folks still have not woke up yet.
Pretty bad our cmmunitys children think the board is lost as well.
August 24, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple, they did not put the sunset claus back on the levy, the Task Force people told them that they needed it on the ballot.They have not made any sound decisions since April of this year. Look we will never agree with each other and we could go on and on jabing each other.In the end result we want the same thing for our school we just have different opinons on who we want to run our schools.You believe the current people are doing a fine job and I believe that have messed our school up very badly and need replaced with people who have experience with turning bad situations in the district around and move forward from there.You support you beliefs and I will support mine and defend my opinions and beliefs.
August 24, 2009 at 3:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple, where did they get their feed back or was this kept quite as well since these people and the board and admin are joined at the hip.Oh that right it is from getting out in the neighborhoods this summer as they said they would do.
August 24, 2009 at 5:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
First you are crossing the line telling me I was not brought up very well.Both of my parents which are no longer here raised their children very well.And we were taught not to hate. We might not respect or we might dislike people but those we do not respect or dislike have given us a reason not to respect or dislike them as the people in this admin has done.Apple you sit wherever and you have no and let me repeat no children in school as you have stated and try to tell us parents we are Hater,Stupid,Idiots,Stupid Idiots,and maybe even Hicks for what we believe in and for posting what the district has done to our children as well as the communitys children.Have I personally attacked your character? The answer would be no. Have I ever said to you did a bad job of raising you children?Answer to all would be no.I should just tell you to go to H_ _ _ for attacking my parents and the job they did raising their children but I will be nice.
August 24, 2009 at 8:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,I voted yes/yes the last time I told you this on several occasions put your glasses on and read.So I did not vote to take anything away from the children.And I would think with 35.5 million in reserves nothing should have been taken away from them. you talk about the blame game is this not what the district is doing to the public? They are blaming the public for their mistakes.And yes apple I will take somewhat of a break because you will not be here.
August 24, 2009 at 9:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Insideout, I agree with a lot of your post about newspapers and other media. The newspaper should report the good, but they do have a responsibility to also report the bad. It has been my opinion, which I have been criticized for, that the SD has no real public relations program. They have someone with the title, but good PR is not being done. A good PR person must constantly strive to try to push the positive out there, even when there are negatives around. To be truly effective, the PR person must rise above the school district negatives, a move I feel the district is fighting on a daily basis. This constant push for positive PR must go on, whether there is an election around the corner, or not. I just don't think that happens here. In another post, I commented on what I thought was a stupid move, not subscribing to the newspaper this year. If I was wanting the newspaper support, I would be supporting them. To have good public relations, you have to keep in constant communication and keep pushing the positives.
August 24, 2009 at 9:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
catwoman says...
It won't be the same without apple.
Yea!
-one more hater
August 24, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
teeter59 says...
What makes any of you think or believe that the school board will keep it's word and provide the things that they promise once they get the raise? Two years ago, the school where my niece attends was under construction for almost two years. The school district said it was to make it safer due to the increase in violence in all schools. Now I ask, what parent would say no to that? hahahahha but is that what happened NOPE. The only thing that got done, was a fancy awning, one door that doesn't work anymore, and a huge office for the principal and better accomodations for the secretaries and a nice place for the Nurse to let sick kids lie down. Nothing at all in the way of safety at all was put in place. What a disappointment in the thousands and thousands of dollars spent. The only thing that was valid was the Nurse's space. That is what we will have, wait and see. Promises and wasted money.
August 24, 2009 at 10:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
teeter, please tell us the school so that we can verify.
August 25, 2009 at 6:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
i think the NP's job is to report on the schools and the news is just not good. i don't see the reporting as negative, i see it as accurate.
all you have to do is to read through the plethora of stories under special reports on the schools issues and see that there has been plenty of coverage. i have in the past highly criticized the reporting as "fluff" but have seen a much more investigative approach. to me, that is a welcome change.
not even the wizard of all PR professionals could spin the recent news from the district in a positive light. the NP should not be reduced to the role of cheerleader.
August 25, 2009 at 7:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
Apple, you state: "the point of the task force was to get the feedback of the people, they did that and recommended the sunset clause - I don't see the problem you seem to keep finding"
Here is the problem that people have with that - they did NOT get the feedback of the people. They met in secret and conspired with the Board in an attempt to look like a grassroots group listening to the people. They pushed out everyone who did not agree with their way of thinking. The feedback that I get from people says that this is not about money and not about the sunset clause. It is a vote of no confidence in this BOE and this administration.
There were no exit polls - no door to door polling - nothing...they say the people spoke. My question is WHAT PEOPLE ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT??? Who is it that they talked to and in what forums?? I bet if they actually answered these questions, you would find the scope of this discovery process very narrow.
When I attended the first couple of open meetings at the library, the overwhelming majority of people at those meetings wanted to work to get a levy passed without a sunset clause and in an amount that was necessary to properly fund our schools. The next thing we find out is that the group has changed its name and limited its membership, began having clandestine meetings and have come up with 63 cents with a sunset clause. REALLY?
"The people" which they claim to have spoken is heartland and friends. The rest of us want to properly fund our schools, we want transparency and we want a BOE and administration who is accountable to us (the people) and not to special interest groups like Heartland. How do I know this you ask?? Well, it is because we have been talking to people from all parts of this community. We have gone and pounded the pavement downtown, we have attended NCLB meetings and NAACP meetings. We have been in the northend, southend, eastside, midtown, you name it. The 63 cent levy with a sunset clause is not what the people demand. The task force aka Heartland got it wrong.
August 25, 2009 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
you, polls cost money. Exit polls cost a lot of money. Who is going to pay for them? The News Press? The District?
I don't believe these folks are in any way funded or controlled by Heartland. Who cares? Why?
August 25, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
238 - I know polls cost money and I sure wouldn't expect anyone around here to pay for them. My point is that the task force shouldn't claim to know what the people want when they haven't done anything to find out.
As for your other question - Transparency. Just like I want to know what special interest groups play a role in policy making in our federal government I want to know what entities may have the ability to affect policy at the local level as well. Remember, what is in Heartlands best interest may not always be what is in everyone else's.
August 25, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
238er,
Wake up this group is controlled by Heartland Hospital and attorneys that do have the best interst of the WHOLE comnmunity. The same people who do not like any competition look they jump at everything and buy it in our community and will not let any other Hospital come here and when one wants to the jump and buy the property for the other hospital cannot buy it and build here.As yougottabekiddingme stated they have pushed people out that did not see thing their way.They are worried about one area of town and one only and it seems as if that is the northeast end and the heck with the rest of the areas. They think this arwa of town will be able to pass the levy ,but you markl my words other areas of town are going to come out in full force to make sure this levy fails and send the board a message that chnge needs to happen before the public will support the levy and bond issues they put forward.It also seems as if the board and administration is in bed with these folks.These are the same folks that said we will go out in the neighborhoods this summer and knock on door to talk to the public and they did not come to my area of town.Also they said they had a Web Site for the public in a article but failed to give that Web address to the public. Why do you suppose this is?Gees I wonder.I hope like heck this group falls flat on their face and the district as well till we get their attention and changes are made.I still personally beleive MELODY SMITH should resign and go back to being a teacher something she was good at.Well since Apple is going to be gone for a couple of weeks I will not get called a Hater for this post.
August 25, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
Heartland's best interest is what ... educating our kids? Gee, that is really nefarious. If Heartland were to support clean water, clean air and a healthy diet would you be against that too?
August 25, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
238 - partially right. Heartland's best interest is educating our kids in one specific part of town. They could give a rats you know what about anyone else.
August 25, 2009 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
I guess this town to certain people do not want change, but change starts at the top and these folks need to go they do have our communitys children at the top of priorities and do not have their best interset at the top as well.Some of us are sick of the status quo and getting stepped on and people who are sick of getting stepped on will come out in full force this November election to send this school board and administration a very loud message.This will not be the public fault like they will try to play off to be but instead it is their fault for making all of these issues and the public not trusting them.
August 25, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
Heartland employees live all over town.
August 25, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
238 - "Heartland employees live all over town."
You missed the point.
August 25, 2009 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
238er says...
What is your point other than you hate Heartland?
August 25, 2009 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
Heritage - You're telling me out of 1400 elementary students, there wasn't one good story to report...not one happy child? Not one parent that is pleased their child is going to a better school? I don't buy it for a single second.
I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, I will stand with those opposed to the district anytime because I do agree that there's a large list of items that can be corrected. But, I will not stand and say that EVERYTHING the district does is incorrect...even a broken clock is right twice a day.
The negative items should get attention but so should the positives. Continuing to let negativity dominate these discussions only breeds more negativity and progresses no one. You can see the spiral on these blogs, there's NO viable solution that has been provided but yet a growing amount of half-truths and negative comments
August 25, 2009 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
inside out - my son says the cheese sticks are good. : )
August 25, 2009 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
inside out, i agree that the district does good things. however, i don't want to read "feel good pieces" while the two minutes the clock is right are not enough.
seriously. take the time to read through the school sections in the special reports section. it is enlightening.
parents and teachers are all doing their best. it isn't any easier when the district makes comments such as paterson made... in a couple of years all the schools will be failing ayp and then everything will be all right again? gimme shelter.
August 25, 2009 at 2:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple what happened to those 2 weeks?Nothing is going to change unless there is change downtown and that can happen now fire some of these administrators and repalce them with one who have experience with turning troubled districts around.Negativity will remain as long as these people remain. Wake up.There are good thing the district does but it is at the indivdual schools levels not downtown.Pretty bad when principles think the redistricting was wrong.Theres one to think about.
August 25, 2009 at 3:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
Heritage - Come on now! You're smart enough to know that I have done my own research, talked to different folks on both sides, and have been engaged. Please don't infer that I have not read the special reports section.
I've said it a million times and everyone knows it: the district is a broken mess. But we are naive to think that any of the current administration or board members are going to step down in the foreseeable future.
Of course, the public (people) is reacting harshly because of the treatment they have received. But don't forget that SJSD and SJSB are people as well and therefore have the same tendency as each of us. When backed into a corner, everyone get's defensive and all thinking stops...which appears to be exactly the situation we have.
The SJSB/SJSD has created numerous problems but at last check the public school system is compromised of many parts...young and old, poor and rich, able bodies and handicapped, employees and citizens and all of these pieces play a role. Regardless of what some will say, the SJSD/SJSB did not create this situation alone or overnight, in one fashion or another, we all (myself included) have played a part. The current SJSD/SJSB may have sped it up but it's been there for decades.
August 25, 2009 at 8:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
insideout,
The district did not act harshly with closing schools and redistricting 1400 school children for this school year?And there is a difference when the public is backed into a corner we come out swinging back and the people of the district are backed into a corner they should worked to clean up the mess or issue that put them on the defence since they work for us and not treat us like crap.
August 26, 2009 at 12:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Apple, I will still defend my comment about subscribing to the Newspress in an election year. It is good will--like it or not. It is not necessarily buying support. Relating to the comments about Heartland Health...I think the school district could borrow a page from Heartland Health. Every time you get a bill and feel you are billed too much; for every time you feel you aren't treated well out there--you will say negative things about them. What a better way to counteract the negative image, than to get out and volunteer in the community,in essence, creating a dialog with the community. I think the Newspress has also tried to have a community presence, beyond the paper. After all, it was newspaper employees who started the Coleman Hawkins Jazz and Blues festivals, and another event I personally like--the Mardi Gras parade. Did I fail to mention the Southside Fourth of July at Lake Contrary (which I am aware was not held this past year)? I am not a fan of the current school district administration. I think they are smart enough, academically, to handle their jobs. I feel it is their inability, or lack of desire, to communicate with the community they serve. The hospital can lose patients to Kansas City hospitals. The Newspress can lose subscribers to the television, internet, or other newspapers. The school district can lose students to private schools, home schools, or just lose support altogether. My point is, that the Newspress and Heartland are trying to do something to improve their images in the community, and I feel they both have done a good job in their efforts. I appreciate what they have done, for whatever reasons they have had. I will give credit where credit is due. I will add that exclusivity on the part of the task force is wrong, both morally and strategically.
August 26, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
mm1967 - Really! I'll preface my following statements by I DO NOT support everything the district does. There are two issues here...1)The closure of the schools. 2)How the district handled the closing of schools.
The first issue...Did they act harshly? No! They told the community well before the ballot that regardless of its passage or failure, they would be closing two schools. How that translates to punishing the community I will never understand. Secondly, change is never easy but personally I believe the school closure was the correct thing for the long-term future of the district...the population base is/was not there to support these school. Go ahead and insert comment about overcrowding here but there was already an overcrowding issue... just maybe not affecting the schools you are familiar with. That's what happens when the population shifts from the center of town.
Issue number 2...the district did a terrible job on handling the situation. They illustrated their inability to plan, communicate, and show empathy. If those three things would have been in place, then even with the closing of the schools this issue would have never gotten to this point.
August 26, 2009 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
insideout says...
MM1967 Let me get this straight:you can come out swinging but you don't expect them to swing back. If that's really your mentality then it would suggest to me that you practice the same thing you have accused the SJSD of doing:picking on the little guy.
The bigger problem is that anyone came out swinging but it's exactly why this situation is not improving. Ever heard the statement calmer heads prevail? It might be time for both sides to give that approach a chance, and then maybe we would get some movement on this issue.
August 26, 2009 at 8:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
As usaual you did not listen what the H I said.Are you not able to read.I said that Heartland is behind this task force as well as attorneys and some are tied to heartland and Hausman Roofing.Look at the peoples names assosiated with the task force and connect the dots apple.And you have lost your mind if you think they make good use of our tax payer money. I seem to remember Mrs Flowers getting new furniture instead of using what the district already had.This was good use of money correct.And I have heard some people say it was stimulus money that bought this furniture but this is tax payer money as well.Good decisions with everything that is going on about money and the district isnt it?
August 26, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
teeter59 says...
in answer to what school the previous posting referred to, it was John Glen. on the savannah school website click John Glenn click improvements then view it. The point today is the same as before. How can we trust "our" school board? What makes us believe our board will use the money given to them wisely and for what it is intended? Our school district has not shown themselves to be all that forthcoming and honest, at least not in my opinion. I decided I am backing out of this conversation. I am really upset this school year. I am upset about rising costs of long lists of "mandatory" school supplies many things not really needed. I am upset about the extravagance at the hands of those in charge, with money given by others. These tax payers who have the audacity to expect the board to always use the money strictly wisely and painstakenly carefully. Making valid, well thought out choices. I am upset about continued waste that no one wants to take seriously. We all say it is for the children. That is why we get so angry. How much money will "the children" get from this raise?? I was upset this week to find that these children we speak of have to eat just peanut butter alone, smeared on a single slice of bread instead of a regular hot lunch when their lunch charge account gets a negative balance. I was upset to find that a young student's lunch account was messed up showing a small balance due on the 4th day of school. This "child" whom we are all supposed to be fighting to get money for, was embarrassed in front of their peers. Apparently having even a small balance due, a couple dollars the children can't eat hot lunch. I wonder where this rule came from and is it policy or just something the school decided to do on their own. I wonder how many schools do it and if the board and district knew. I thought of Kenny Reeder whom I don't particulary approve of personally, but who took the time to blow up that cash register receipt to make a point. It showed the nice expensive dinners the school board members had while they were at the fancy resort. How one board member spoke out as if it wasn't any ones business. Defending the actions as if the persons who supply this tax money had no right to even ask how it was spent. Meanwhile this young child had to eat peanut butter so I wondered will this money be to help the kids really? Or just the district and school board salaries. Will it even help the teachers? I am just overwhelmed this year and want to sit back thinking about what I have seen this last few days. I am really disappointed in the district's attitude. The constant want of more. made me wonder again is this really for the kids after all?
August 27, 2009 at 4:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
johncourter says...
Apple, I believe you misinterpet my viewpoints. My view is straightfoward. The validations are there to support it. No to the sunset clause. Re-argue the original plan, maybe tweek it a little and bring it back to the table. The administration and BOE stand by and defend what is truly needed, own it, and not allow groups to dictate and control the course of a campaign. Argue for proper funding, kill the sunset clause forever. I have argued my case, had a very informative meeting with Dr. Smith, wrote to the BOE (some responded back, some did not) and presented what I had to say and my thought processes behind them. My ideas about a long range plan are consistent with the original proposal, my only concern was what was going to be done with the 16 buildings still in play granted an argument was made about old buildings during that time. I actually got my answer. The original plan actually covered that, with all the other stuff going on at the time, that piece of it never really surfaced.
The decision was made to shoot for the sunset clause. I disagree with that decision. I argued my case and appreciated the time that was given to hear it. My work scheduled does not allow me to attend BE meetings, so I used email. I was heard. I represented myself as a citizen of this community with what I consider a very logical viewpoint, no different then what alot of other highly educated and high profile people do, one to one discussions with the policy and decision makers. Out in public I continue to make my case. Many have agreed with my viewpoints. Some disagree on one or a few elements of my case, and it has been at least respectful and I have recipocated that to those individuals in return. I am no fan of the pseudo name thing and have addressed that. This issue has gone too far for people to continue to hide behind that, it is the single most important issue facing the community. People need to stand by what they say and have the confidence to put their name to it. I disagree with the direction of a group of highly skilled and educated people who's original majority base believed the sunset clause was not the solution, but are going after it anyway. I believe this group should have the confidence of arguing for a permenant levy with the amount of time, money and effort that appears to be going into it. I also do not agree with the tactics that appear to be utilized. There also appears to have been a previous attempt to throw some of this group's original base "under the bus" as time went forward by others within it. In my view, goes to the very core of how truly unified is this group? I believe something else is behind this major push for a continued status quo solution, but will not speculate further because I do not have enough validations to support it. I am not comfortable political representation is apparently shadowing this effort. Where was that representation when it was truly needed?
Time will tell how this will play out.
August 27, 2009 at 12:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Apple, sometimes I think I need to get you some crayons and drawing paper, because you don't seem to understand anything more complex than numbers. The superintendent did announce that Neely was going to close no matter what. I think the issue of out-of-town employees is important largly because these people CAN'T VOTE for this issue. I don't begrudge them for living out of town and working here, but it doesn't give the school district much of an advantage, which, as the 3rd largest employeer in St. Joseph, they should have. All of my comments, regarding administration, have been geered to their inability, or lack of desire, to communicate effectively and to have a definite plan. I am not talking about the long range plan of Dr. Smith. I am talking about a plan to improve its image, which you have to admit, from these comments, is not very good. I don't really blame the Board that much. All they can do is listen to the administrators, because the school board has other things to do during the day, than to go over the school district balance sheet. Having said that, I still think they ought to visit the schools regularly, which I don't think they have. They do need to develop relationship with staff, not just principals. They need to develop a relationship with staff, in which there is no fear of negative consequence involved, if a staff member speaks to a Board member without permission from the staff member's boss.
August 27, 2009 at 4:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Oh my god I am glad to see that you finally think the the district gets a F in handling their issues.Thank You!!!!!
August 27, 2009 at 5:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
teeter59 says...
Apple, you should go back to school and learn to spell! Jeez how can a 10 year old child be responsible for their parent's lunch bill account and just for the record, the policy is when it gets 10.00 behind, and it was only the 4th day of school and was in fact 1.80 due. mind you the school had NOT sent any notification of it's intent nor the fact that it was due before taking action. You are too judgemental Apple it was not even the focus of my point. The focus was that we can't trust the board, and that I am so disappointed in the crap. You vent constantly and I do try to read your rants and raves, but it is difficult. English is just not your strong point. Now I am finished.
August 27, 2009 at 5:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Apple, the reason I kept hitting the number of out of town employees, was because it seemed that the standard answer seemed to be, "Why should it make any difference?" It does make a difference. I don't know how many employees live out of town...yet. But I will attempt to find out for you. I have always had a theory about St. Joseph and its hiring practices. What I think often goes on is--and I know this has been going on in the school district--yes, and before this administration. If a school district employee complains about working conditions or salary, the answer has often been ,"Go South and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out." I also know that the district has often used the term, "lean and green." That is important because one of its meanings is, "low salaries." Now, if my hunch was right, and they hired people from smaller surrounding communities, they could get them cheaper, because chances are that St. Joseph pays better than its smaller surrounding communities. Since there is no big loyalty to St. Joseph, as they only earn their money here, when they are either treated badly or don't get a raise, some of these school district employees move on. This, economically, makes sense. It keeps overhead down, but it can create a problem, at an election time, if there are many out of town employees. I don't think relations between administration and the employees has been good for years, in the school district. I don't think this is anything new. However, this district has carried it one step farther, because they have also lost a positive relationship with the voters. To be honest, if I thought it was only a few people living out of town, I would agree with you, totally. But I'm wondering just how many of the employees live outside the school district. I don't begrudge them for wanting to work in the school district. I just don't think the taxpayer should be criticized for questioning the school district decisions and revenue issues if the employees, themselves, are not out front and center, in supporting them, by their vote and the payment of their taxes. As far as your crayons,Apple, the fruit flavored ones are the best.
August 27, 2009 at 8:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Apple, you may need your fruity crayons. You said there were only 5000 voters. If, when I find out the number of employees living out of town, which I WILL FIND OUT, how many people would it take to to turn around a tax levy? I believe the levy failed 51 to 49%. With that small of a voter turn out, school district employees should have been able to win the issue. I agree about the poor turn-out not supporting the schools.However, in one of your posts, I think you said the school district deserved an F- in relating to the public. Do you suppose that might explain why there wasn't much interest in that issue? In my analogy of the school district,I was also talking about what I think is done in businesses here, too. You have talked about St. Joseph pay being below average. If people are having to work 2 jobs, they will really look at their household budget before they support a school district budget increase.
August 27, 2009 at 10:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Apple, it is your last comment I wanted to talk about. I agree with it. I think I have said in the past that there is a rather large chunk of St. Joseph that IS NOT affected by what goes on in the public schools. Like it or not, this town is made up of many retirees. The school district must figure out a way to involve them as well as parents, in the school district. I think they have fallen down to that fact. I think that the emphasis has been test scores, which lately they they have been somewhat less than successful with, and to run efficiently. They don't have a plan to relate to the public. They do have a long range plan, which you have stated, but they do not have a plan to get it across or even have the foggiest notion how to interact with the public. I have talked to various members of organizations who talked about the district presentations they had heard. The word I have heard most often from the members I spoke to and members of other entities in town that have heard the district presentation, is "arrogance", and it makes them angry with the school district. The administration might want to learn a brand new word, "humility".
August 27, 2009 at 11:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
I bet there is a hugh turn out this go around.And there will be plenty of NO votes there will be YES/YES votes that will become no votes just because of the current situation. There will be no votes from people who at this point in time want no new taxes and there will no votes from the people who do not support the levy with the sunset.Then you will have the no votes from the elderly.Looks like this adds up to one hugh NO.Looks like rough times ahead for the current administration.
August 28, 2009 at 12:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
The reason the folks need replaced is more for how they have treated the public apple and not being smart to you,if You have no children in school and no dealings with these folks you would not know how they are coming off to the public.You can call me names tell me I need help but for one I am a firm believer as some others are as well for the future of our schools and children these people need to be replaced.People are just not going to support these people anylonger.And apple I have expressed concerns over issues at the schools and schools that I have nothing to do with or my children do not attend.The public will roll up their sleves when they have people they respect,trust,and are willing to communicate and work with the public simple.Something the current people have no been able to understand.I went to Benton High school and after all of these years and going to have children there I am very proud still to this day of Benton no matter how old it is. It has a great deal of history and I am sure the students of Central are just as proud and the other coming in to play sport maybe need to under stand the history of the school before they judge.You just do not tear building down like this you keep them up and with the public support you improve them.
August 28, 2009 at 7 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
Apple, sometimes you and I agree on things enough that it almost scares me. But the one area that you and I do not agree with in any way, shape, or form, is on the administration. I give the superintendent credit for shaping a long range plan. I don't necessarily agree with it, but she did have one and there are other people do like it. I still remember her reaction when the bond and tax levy lost, and I still don't know how to interpret her mood displayed on the television. I still think administrators have an unwillingness to listen to ANYBODY. Many people are attacking the BOE. I'm sorry, but I don't know just how much in the loop of school district business, the Board actually is. I have heard, from school district employees, that any direct discussion between a Board member and a member of the staff is FORBIDDEN, by administration. If the administration and Board doesn't listen to staff or parents, I think they're just asking for another defeat. Apple, your children played sports. If you know much about coaches, you know that sometimes parents blame coaches, when losses pile up, even though the home team may be grossly mismatched. The coach still gets the credit. Too many losing seasons, and you lose the coach. The person in charge of these test scores is Mrs. Patterson. You and I both agree that these tests are not the way to go. However, the game is the MAP. Mrs. Patterson is a coach, who started fairly strong, but her loses are starting to stack up. We may have to lose Mrs. Patterson as our head MAP coach.
August 28, 2009 at 10:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )