Children living at Brittney Village and not going to Coleman is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. They didnt get to go to coleman before. This is one way the district wastes money just because they do not want these kids at coleman. I hope a lot of parents there send there kids to Coleman now. I also really wish people would see coleman for what it is. My children started out there a few years ago. Then when I saw how they judge people I quickly pulled my kids out of that school. We moved just so they wouldnt be taught that people without high paying jobs are for whatever reason not accepted. I could not let my kids be raised like that. They have friends of all class brackets and I would prefer to keep it that way. People should not judge others for the amount of money they make. This school district is well known for that.

Where I live in town, my children were first shipped to Webster, then Robidoux, and finally Lafayette. Bode is 8 blocks and Central is 10. I did not understand the reasoning behind sending my children to a school MILES away instead of meer blocks. Still don't understand.

At least they received a good education here, mostly because we, as a family, studied and read together. And because they were lucky enough to have teachers (like Miss Cook at Webster and "Doc" Pilgram at Lafayette)who inspired them beyond the walls of the classroom.

"Mr. Flowers said he didn’t know why the original boundaries were set where they lie; they were drawn several years before he or any of the current administrators worked for the district."

But the new boundaries were drawn and redrawn on his watch, so he is now accountable.

Good story, AW.

didn't mention grade schools kids are bused to humbolt from oakridge, use to anyway. that never made sense to me. maybe they need to rethink the district lines. if the parents of the schools in cerain areas are miffed because their child might rub shoulders with some kid of less money so be it.

good luck ms.daneille sorry this happened to you. your not alone happen to my niece and many kids.
would like to see the numbers on transfers after there in. it will be interesting to see just how many kids took advantage of the transfers.

Mr Flowers got to attend schools close to his home when he went to school here and do not lie to the public about this Doug.Some of us went to school with you.So explain to us Doug why you would want to do this to the children of our community now? Did things like this happen to us when we were in school? Let me answer this for you NO it did not.
You all have created on hell of a mess and now the public is going to hold you all accountable for your actions.The schools are overcrowded,you bus children all over town,children are having a hard time adjusting, not to mention the confusion you all have created for our teachers and principles and support staff.And you all sit downtown on your perch and act if nothing is wrong.You have children within walking distance to schools but you the district sent them clear to the other side of town.Why?
Where is the communication from the admin on this to explain your actions.Doug please explain this to the public because your boss will not,I though you were a better person than this.I am sure the public has some questions for you.

Alonzo Weston writing about kids being shipped because of socio-econonmic reasons.......Imagine that! If this has been going on for years, then why is it an issue now? Just a chance to write a non-relevant story about the poor being wronged and the school district being the surpressor of the common man. Wake up people! There have been class issues for years. The good news is........it's not as bad in Joetown as it is in many areas in the good ole USA. Finally, give teachers a break. A perk of having your kids go to the same school as you are teaching at, isn't asking much. GEEEZ! You think that is such a great thing and so unfair to the "common" citizen, then get a job as a teacher or janitor or whatever. How ridiculous. Can people not find something else more meanial to complain about?

How would you view Danielle's situation from a positive point of view, apple?

I think it would be great if all the children could go to the school that is closest to their home. There's only 1 problem with that. The student population of St. Joseph does not live in places equal to the location of the schools. For example, lets' say each elementary school can accomodate about 350 kids. School "A" has, within a 3 mile radius of it's doors, 200 children. School "B" has within a 3 mile radius, 500 children.
Do you bus 150 kids who live in school "B's" area to school "A?" or do you build on to school "B" to accomodate the larger population?

music, the District should've been planning for this over the last 20 years. I completely agree with you, and this is another illustration of poor Leadership Planning.

I think it is ludicrous that anyone would complain about teachers being able to send their children to the school they teach at. Teachers deserve this 'perk'. They work hard to help build the future. Teachers work weekends grading papers and writing lesson plans. They buy school supplies the district will not provide out of their own pockets. They deal with kids with no disipline and worry about kids who have unstable homes. They come in early and stay late. These are the people who are teaching, nurturing and watching out for our kids eight hours a day, five days a week. Teachers do not choose their profession because it has great benefits and high pay. They deserve this 'perk' for all the hard work they do.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair Sidamo. I think on one side you have valid points while another side would tell you that the district, in its many incarnations of personel over these past twenty years, have all wanted to build a school on the east(northeast) side to accomodate the impending influx of students living in that area. Colgan knew this would be a contentious issue so instead of asking for the school, he got a levy passed on the promise of building on and updating the current schools. He also was aware that redistricting would be a hot stove issue, so he maintained the status quo as much as he could. Dr. Smith is much less a politician but recognizes as well that the status quo is no longer condusive to operating the district in an economically viable manner. She also understood these economic times virtually ensure that now is not the time to be building a school, like her predecessor. The $.63 operating levy is a necessary continuation of needed funds to maintain current levels of operation. The new school would have to wait until better economic times.
This was her proposal to the school board last year.
The school board placed both issues before the voting public against Dr. Smith's recommendation.
I do agree that the whole thing has been handled poorly, by the board, which bears the responsibility moreso than the administration, and I'm not that thrilled with how the outcome of the vote has been handled by the administration either.

Thank god someone sees the true value of a teacher. Nice job, catwoman! MEOW!!The school district has been playing games with students and where they go for years. Once again, why are we making it an issue now? Let's be bigger than the school district and not pick on them for all the bad they are doing now as retaliation for not passing the school levy. Makes us as little as them.

Catwoman: I agree teachers most definitely deserve the perk you mentioned. But again while politically correct to paint teachers as these heroes that are just in awful paying and benefit positions it is completely false. Teachers make well above the average wage of a community and while yes there is a limit that prevents getting rich a teachers pay level is simply not one note under paid.

But excuse me but lumping benefits thinking teachers get the short end on those is a joke. Teachers have some of the best benefits in this country and certainly compared to almost every worker not a teacher or government employee.

You can and should make a case that teachers should get treated better and paid more. But acting like they are working in sweatshops and making minimum wage does not help their cause.

xanzzz,
I'm sure you are the one that thinks it is the teacher's duty to mold and raise your children while you sit back and watch. Teachers have more chance of molding America than any other profession out there. Maybe if we were giving more of these perks you think they are already getting or are not deserving of, then we would be getting the cream of the crop and not losing the valuable commodities that could be out there doing "your" job of raising your kids. Your arguments belong in catwoman's litter box.

Sidamo, I'm frustrated too with the way the board and the super-council has handled this last year, but I don't understand your thinking. Look back over the last 10 years of your own life were you able to predict everything that happened? Sometimes people in our community are being unrealistic in what you ask of the district. They can only forsee so much and prepare for that. We should all be able to agree that it is impossible to totally predict the future. If all officials in charge could do that we wouldn't be in the recession we are in. I think it is time to find positive in the district and write about that. There is a lot of positive happening in the district too. I believe what apple was trying to say is the news media seems to be capitalizing on the frustration of the community instead of trying to diffuse the situation with some positive aspects they seem to spend all of their time stirring the angry pot. I don't mean to down play the anger people are feeling about the new redistricting, but the news media pick and choose what they want to print and it seems easier to prey on the anger and keep it going. I'm not asking the news reporters to stop reporting news, but sensationalizing the plight of the people to keep people stirred up seems to be the main goal of especially our news paper.

Let's see...college diploma, 4 years college education the low end would currently be about $52000. Start teaching salary around $33000 in St. Joe. Add Master's degree 1-2 years more education about $18000. Get bump in salary? No, that's frozen.
So after 5-6 years of education, debt of $70000, salary of $33000, starting a family, I definately need to get in on this gravy train.

music, classyt

Woodbine, north of Gene Field was a gravel road when I was in grade school in the 80s (20 some years ago). 12 Oaks was built when I was in High School at Central in the early 90s. In my opinion, "they" should've seen the need for the school when Wilshire was approved, before the first scoop of dirt was lifted. Leaders do not postpone a contentious issue, they Lead through it all the while explaining the need. Colgan dropped the ball on at least 2 things - not redistricting as necessary and not pursuing at least one new school in the NE. In my backward looking opinion, Colgan was an appeaser. A nice man to be sure, but he wanted everyone to see him as a nice guy, so he stayed away from tough issues. OK, now I have children, love Saint Joseph, and desire to see it blossom. Looking back through the history lessons, Saint Joseph shoulda-coulda been the mecca Kansas City is, but back then (as now? I'm sincerely asking because I don't know "them") "they" liked to keep the people on a short leash.

True enough Sidamo, The previous administration kind of left the ball, the pointy, sharpy, razor edged ball, for the next administration and in the current economic downfall, the woulda/shoulda looms larger than ever.

When is the next school board election, does anybody know?

lindoris, it's been said on another blog relating to schools here on stjoenews.net that in April, 2 seats are up for election on the school board. It is believed to be the seats occupied currently by Mr. Leo Blakely and Mr. Martin Rucker. That information comes from another blogger.

glad to see that weston has put this out in the public. the ISSUE here is not so much the teacher "perks" which i think are justified.

the issue is that immediately following the NO/NO vote superintendent smith stamped her foot and said "NO TRANSFER...... NOT EVEN FOR TEACHERS". then quietly, the district went back and not only reinstated the transfer policy, but broadened its scope.

all the while anyone who approached the podium to ask for consideration on other ISSUES WERE TOLD REPEATEDLY THIS IS WHAT WE SAID WE WERE DOING, AND WE ARE DOING IT.

except the teachers. they got their transfer policy back, and even more were added to that list by including the full complement of all school employees.

my question is this. who gets the spots in the four schools designated for title one transfers? has a single student who is entitled by federal law to have school choice been told OOOOOPs, no room at your first choice school. you get your second choice. if a single transfer is keeping a NCLB student from their first choice, then the district has a federal problem.

lindoris,

Awesome. I love to hear parents who focus their time on the quality of education their children are receiving and take an active part, which is ultimately our responsibility as parents! And I strongly agree with you about quality teachers. Dr. Pilgram is one of the best. I had him for Chem at MWSU and he is truly gifted. There are several out there for our kids to draw on, especially when parents encourage them!

Sidamo, You are correct in your last posting, nothing I can disagree with on your point. I just think negativity breeds negativity and although, I believe you are for the good of our school system and our community not all people on here are. Some are here just to complain and the paper is feeding the frenzy.

Relating to the teacher and own child in the same building...those who knock it should look at it as more of a time-on-task issue. If a teacher is assigned to Pershing and has a child, who is going to Hyde, if there is a problem with that child, the teacher may have to leave the job at Pershing, and go clear across town, to Hyde to see what the problem is and what must be done with the child. That is a loss of significant teaching time. A replacement has to be procured. Substitutes are not always available on short notice. Either another teacher or para will need to take that teacher's class time. As the principal has a teaching certificate, it could be him or her--but I personally doubt that would happen. As far as the comments about the school board not listening to the superintendent on the bond issue, that should quiet all the complaints I used to hear about school board members being rubber stamps. There was a comment about Colgan bringing schools up to date. Since Webster evidently is healthy enough to have students (because it still does), why couldn't it have been kept open as a school and then move the current programs after they passed the bond issue? As for me, the one thing that still strikes me as interesting, is that we advertise 2 schools, as entirely unfit. Then we only close one of them. We close the one that is healthy [Webster], and leave the unhealthy [Hall] one, open???If you want to talk about balance, I don't think what they have now is very balanced. "Balance" is more than numbers. In order to take a test,such as the MAP, shouldn't there be a healthy environment? Which is healthier? Webster or Hall? I think redistricting has always been in question. Years ago, I believe the students who lived in Noyes Home were not allowed to walk straight across the street from their front door to the front door of Bode. They were bussed elsewhere. I hope that's changed.

On the election issue, I wonder why the district website does not list the terms of each of the board members. Of course, I have repeatedly complained about the website. Also, it lists the board secretary as a member of the board which she is not.

dilly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Noyes Home was not a special situation. And as you know Bode is merely a middle school.

Webster was closed due to the lack of children in the neighborhood. Plain and simple.

238er,
You are exactly right Webster was closeddue to lack of students> But heres a question for you.
Was not Webster close to the northeast side of Town?
Meaning some of these students could have been bused to Webster till a school was built in the Northeast.
Correct? So that therory is shot all to hell.What is the idfference bussing children to Webster than bussing Websters children?Here also a concept this would have eliminated all of this mess with transfers anyway you look at it.

The problem is the NE kids had gone to Coleman for years (even when it was Hawthorne). The district tried to move the existing boundaries as little as possible. Most of the issue is created by revoking the transfers. I do not recall seeing numbers on the amount of transfers revoked versus kids redistricted.

Actually,parents are finding loopholes in the new system by claiming seperation in their relationships and using two different adresses in order to keep their children in certain school zones if they are lucky enough to have a relative in that zone. And most people that do this also do the same to recieve other benefits also... ( FOODSTAMPS, HOUSING, MEDICADE) and other programs also..This is not just an opinion ,This is fact!!!! Some folks have bucked the system like this for years. And chances are we all know someone that does.....

This school business is so messed up that i'm starting to get a headache myself and i dont have kids in school anymore. anyone else out there need any tylenol? i just brought a huge industrial size bottle.

oh yeah one more thing. i think we need to clean house at the adminstration offices and start over with a whole new crew from top to bottom over there.

classyt said, "I just think negativity breeds negativity and although, I believe you are for the good of our school system and our community not all people on here are."

Thank you, but be careful now. It almost, almost, sounds like you're saying that negative points (relative to your opinion) should not be made, or should be kept from breeding. These NP comment sections make an opportunity for people like me who do not know "them" to let "them" know what I think, and to bounce thoughts off of other voters to see where I am wrong. (When my thought process is off-kilter, I'll be the first to admit it, I am not too proud.) My desire is for stewardship. Those in charge won't be for long, and as we've seen, they pass down their success or problems to the next group.

Those here to cause trouble are not well camouflaged.

Well said Sidamo!

Is trouble defined as asking those making assertions to use facts not conclusions? Is trouble calling out those who post falsities?

No, 238er. "Trouble" is defined as those who refuse to understand that their opinions and viewpoints aren't the only valid ones. These people can't see that there are, more often than not, more than one side to an issue. There are also those in these forums who are only here to "stir the pot"....who enjoy making statements designed only to add fuel to the fire, then sit back and gleefully watch the inferno they generated......

I could be clearer, perhaps, but these comment boxes don't allow me to color you a picture.....

I prefer pictures and would happily loan you my crayons.

238er, please give us a FACT regarding the sentiment of the parents toward the District. Facts only, now, per your request.

Sure seems as if us so called HATERS are getting plenty of thumds up while the other are going thumbs down. If these thumbs up and downs are any indication as to the way the levy will go I would say it is going to fail miserably.Maybe it is time for the board to resign and the upper admin to resign as well.Not looking very favorable for the current people in charge.

I referred to Noyes Home and Bode because it WAS DONE. It was done a long time ago and I was trying to prove that it happens, not just with the current administration. I don't think that this administration is community connected and I think most of their predecessors were. I don't think this administration answers questions openly and again, I think the predecessors were better about that. I think to say that everybody on here is here just to make trouble is off base, largely because, if you enter here, you have strong feelings that made you want to enter and you also want immediate feedback. If you don't want it, you shouldn't post here for you will get an answer, which may or may not be pleasant.

Perhaps the children at the Noyes home are bussed to the schools in the neighborhoods where their families were located in an attempt to keep some continuity or something like that. Only two years of the kids would go to Bode anyway. As I said there maybe other issues in that particular circumstance that explain what may seem irrationale.

Sidamo, sentiment is not fact.

What a mess!

I feel badly for the children, parents, and teachers. A few people in the downtown office have made some very bad decisions. This is not the communities fault.

Let's face it! They knew why they were going to close Webster before the election. They wanted it for a lot of other little programs. Webster NEVER CLOSED and is still open with a lot less students AND doesn't it still cost the same to operate this school?

Now we have overloaded the schools, froze the salaries of the teachers who will protect, teach, and help mold our next generation of our community, AND we expect them not to be able to pray in school.

I am very sad about the SJSD Administration and the SJSD School Board. They made this mess, not the community. We DO know what we can do about the School Board at election time but what are we going to do about the administrators? Are they in over their heads?

Sidamo, I'm not talking about the people airing their opinion. I am tired of all negative from the press and no positive from them. There is good going on in the schools, but it isn't being reported on. Even when the reporter starts with a positive the article turns negative. You don't agree there is positive articles that could be written also? I find negativity a waste of time if you don't have a solution to help then it is just griping and a little goes a long way. If people do have solutions then they should join the committee that is working on the bond and become a positive force in helping our community.

classyt,
There is nothing but negativity about the school issue because that is the way the board and admin has made it.There will be good things to report when these people are replaced and we get our funding back for our schools but not until then.This committee you are speaking I would assume it is the task force and they are not for the community they are for one area of town and the heck with the rest.
The reason for all of the negativity is just a reaction from the public for the district messing things up so badly for them and their children and our schools these people in charge are the reason for negativity.

Sending students from Bode to the north end... Let's see, some bloggers, as well as Ms. Patterson, have stated that kids who come from homes with money perform better at school. "Title I kids come from poverty." Title I is a federal program that has been around for decades. Title I schools receive additional federal funds. There are many reasons a student may need additional services in reading and do not need special services. If you review state assessment scores and note that north end schools are not meeting AYP on a consistent basis, it must make sense to the district administration to move the high scorers to another school to get things on track. Additional sanctions will come. Review the data. Publish the data. Dr. Smith, Superintendent, make a public statement. Where and why are you hiding? The last time I saw you, your picture was on the "society" page of the paper presenting a scholarship.

irish_diva,
You bring up a great point why is Mrs Smith hiding and from what a question she has no answer to.Really Mrs Smith what are you hiding from?
It must be reality because you wonderland is over and now you have no idea what to do to fix your mess. I have a sugestion for you "RESIGN".

Heritage,
I agree with you it is not right the school board told us no transfers and no transfers for teacher and then quietly gave them back.And yes if a NCLB student is told their first chioce is full and there is a tranfer of the above nature there they do and will have a federal issue then to explain. And if this happens I would hope it is reported to the Fed.Let the admin deal with that for a while they think they have problems now.

Can anyone tellme how the spots on the school board are filled?

Insideout,
They are elected.

Papa, the employee count was indeed reduced since the teachers and staff from Webster are no longer employed there. Those working in the building now were moved from other buildings in the district (I assume they will eventually get rid of those buildings). The positions were eliminated. I would also guess that food service has been eliminated in this building. So there is a savings.

Insideout, elections for regular vacancies. Other vacancies are filled by the board.

Is this election by a selected group like shareholders or is it a community wide vote?

Community wide vote

So...we have a school board elected by the community.

Now, that we have those details out of the way, can someone (anyone) explain to me how the community does not own at least some portion of blame in regards to this issue?

Furthermore, if the community is completely innocent, then can someone explain how?

AYP transfers took priority over school district employees.

to again clarify the board election: Directors are elected for six-year terms. The elections are at the same time as the city elections -- a primary in March (if more than four candidates file), a general election in April to select the two directors.
we will be electing two new directos next spring. The terms of Mr. Blakely and Mr. Rucker are expiring. Mr. Blakely is term-limited (a two-term or 12-year maximum) and I'm not sure about Mr. Rucker. He won't be running, regardless, as he will be busy with his Senate campaign. Candidates get on the ballot by gathering signatures of registered voters, similar to the manner in which city council members and the mayor get on the ballot.

Insideout,
Yes since we got that out of the way great but the fact still remains they were trusted but at this point there is not trust in these people at all. And I could only hope Mr Rucker would do better with his senate run and a better job if he get elected than he has done on the board.So the way falcon is saying it we will have 2 new board member anyway we look at it. To bad that Mrs Watson is not up. The only board member that is listening is Mr Snethen.I hope the other are worried because they will be replaced as well when there term comes up or start listening like Mr snethen is and do not be anybodys yes man or woman.Remember Mrs Watson wanted to change or bully Mr snethen to change his vote resently and he did not.So there is some termoil in the board.

I said on another post tonight, and will say again here, that I think a prerequisite to being on the Board should be to visit every school building in the district, to get a barometer of the feelings of the employees toward their work in the school district. This should include teachers, maintenance, cooks, secretaries. Then I think a requirement of being ON the Board should be to visit these same buildings and same employees, regularly. I understand this practice has not been encouraged by the district administration, and I have to admit, it makes me wonder why not. I have often heard complaints from school staff members, who say that Board members have rarely or never visited their schools (to their knowledge). If you're going to make a decision about how a district is run, shouldn't you have a feel for your property and your employees? I also would wonder how much recognition and appreciation is given by the Board to the school staffs. What are the zip codes of all the Board members? What are the zip codes of all the administrators. It would seem to me that a good sampling should have lots of different zips.

mm1967 - The school board has not been "trusted" for at least the last 30 years do you really expect that two new members will change that? I am not a supporter of this board but they said they would close two schools regardless of passage or failure of the levy. They did, so that creates mistrust?

You mentioned in a previous article, "I was taught that if you did something and you firmly believed in it then you stand behind it...". Well, the SJSB did something, they said they would close two schools and they stood behind it. Isn't that the first step in creating trust...saying you're going to do something and then doing it?

Insideout,
Yes they did say something and stood behind it but they should have waited to stand behind it till there was a bond passed to build new schools.Not close them and create all of this mess with redistricting and they had to have some kind of idea about the School not met their AYP number which would let transfer happen under the NCLB.So see these people are trying to bully the community into voting for a bond issue to build these school by letting this all happen because now they think there is overcrowding in the school and the community does not want that so they will pass it so we can biuld these schools.But the problem remains they will not vote to pass it so our children will suffer because of THEIR actions not the Publics.I see the State coming sooner than later. I would not want to see this but they could come and replace all of the board member if I am not mistaken.If you cannot get the board and admin to listen and work with the public this is the way the public will make them listen and the public will be heard this way.Mark my words I personally do not see this levy passing in November people are going to come out in full force this election to say NO to them to get their attention as well as in Aprils board election.

238er, sjsd does list the board members, their phone numbers and email addresses

http://web.sjsd.k12.mo.us/District/DistrictBoard.asp

i agree the website is next to useless.......

MM1967 – I get it…the SJSB needs replaced. I don’t disagree but to be frank I’m tired of hearing that broken record when nothing is being done in a timely matter to achieve it. After our numerous exchanges, I am yet to see a meaningful proposal on how to solve the issue. I’ve heard your complaints and now I will move on to individuals that are willing to engage in constructive debate. Please feel free to join those debates when you are willing to add constructive ideas on how we can handle the situation as it exist today.

I don’t have time to “wait” for resignations or terms to expire and frankly neither does the community or the children.

Look at it from my view point as a parent. I became disabled two years out of college. Same bills less money. My husband has been at his job for 17 yrs. We pay high taxes already. I was born and raised here in St Joe. Like many others I am aggravated that the school district is not more honest in their communication with the public. Like many others I am aggravated that they come across as always wanting more and more money but being secretive about the way they will use it. Saying one thing doing another. At every turn there is more money requested from the school too. We spent over 100.00 for school supplies this year buying every thing listed. Last year not only did they not need the items once bought (so frustrating) but they had an additional list the first day of school. This year they needed new things clorox wipes scotch tape headphones trashbags hand sanitizer and special folders special trappers. The new bookbag we had just bought at the end of the school year we cant use this year because they are requiring a draw string bag. Who decided this? Who makes these lists? How many children do they have? Do they have any concept that some parents are on budgets? Much of these new expensive items were taken from my child and placed in a community pile. We must have green yellow orange & blue highlighters. We can't function with one color highlighter? Entire package of red checking pens? We MUST have Exspo markers (most expensive & hardest to find) because nothing else will work? 4 boxes of Kleenex really? What do people with several children do? Meanwhile lunches are awful field trip costs unbelievable yearbooks higher. All costs going up. The school wants more. Provide snacks purchase overpriced/under valued sweatshirts participate in programs like Red Wheel provide refreshments for the many many parties. PLUS give cases of soda for carnivals. Can we have a small break? Can the district at least use our tax money wisely and make it stretch? Can we get a break on some of the required school supply lists? Can’t they use the black boards instead of everyone having a dry erase board & for God's sake why does each child need their own laptop? Get a grip on this spending. Sometimes people in authority get the idea that taxes are a cash cow and unlimited. It isn't so. We should not be a community of slaves in order to have good education for our kids. I don't believe it has to be like this. Most of us just want some accountability. When the public spoke at the polls and said no, we got threats of firing teachers and comments that we don't care about the children. I believe no teachers need be fired; no schools need be closed with accountability! The district is using intimidation to get their way & most people resent it. We can pay just so much tax in a world spinning out of control with costs. Listen to these parents they’re not as stupid as many of you think and they do try, at least we do.

I have lived in the south end for 40, but was born and raised in the North end, and even went to Webster School in 8th grade. I delivered Groceries for the old Mendell's Store and knew the North end Well. I Have to wonder WHY Webster was closed instead of part of Coleman's Students being bussed there. This would have resolved 2 situations in itself. I also wonder about eliminating the Middle schools, or at least some of them and either combining them or having 7th and 8th grade at the High Schools. The High Schools used to have 8th grade anyway, then use the vacated middle school(s) AS Grade Schools. The Bottom line is, it seems like we have plenty of Square Footage of School structures for the Student population, they just need re-arranged. Just a Thought,,,or two,,,,

teeter59, WAY TO GO,,,,, run for one of the School Board seats, and it's YOURS !!!!!!!

Insideout,
You may not have time to wait but this is what I bet happens.
It is not the publics fault and I know you have a hard time understanding this.But listen to the public.We have different opinions and this is what makes the world go around.
Tell me how else the public is going to get these people attention?
If the levy fails this is the only way I know to get these folks attention and it may not even get it.
I have not been the only one on here calling for these peoples resinations others have as well must mean something.And if this would happen we could move forward with new people in charge.

I have no ax to grind here, but having known Doug Flowers for a number of years I can say with certainty that parents' frustrations are spilling into outright lies.

Doug Flowers cares very much about children and will always engage a child as an adult. He is not a "liar" or pushing an agenda.

It amuses me that anyone critical of law enforcement is met with the, "walk a mile in their shoes" adage, yet our educators can get the back hand at any given time with no resistance.

For that matter Melody Smith is in the same category. An EXCELLENT educator that TEACHES, not instructs her students. I learned to love writing in her classroom. I learned to treat opponents with respect in Doug Flowers' health and gym class.

Anyone wishing to make their own changes are free to do so. The only problem is you have to better yourself before you can begin to make an attempt at bettering our children. Like most things that require hard work, I'm sure these parents would prefer to complain. How unfortunate.

Barely caring enough to complain is hardly caring at all.

I would suggest all school people read the Aug. 22nd comments. I used to know a teacher, who did have a heart for people's expenses. She went around the building on the last day of school and asked teachers if she could have what old-but-usable supplies that they might throw in the trash. She didn't care if the pencils weren't full length. She didn't care if the crayons were broken. She didn't care that the scissors had been used. She understood that people needed their money and she did what she could to help that situation. She asked her parents for nothing or for very little, doing this. I have always thought that was nice. Maybe more teachers do this than we know.

VERY well said libertyordeath - just a shame more people can't think this way

dilly - I can say this IS the case in my child's school and I am sure it is in lots of the others. But with teachers having upwards of 25 or more kids in their rooms and having a salary freeze, you can see how much harder it is getting to "help" their students with supplies. And regardless of what is going on now, you've always paid some sort of school tax and I know my parents were always asked to "buy" supplies for me, this is nothing new. And teachers don't "penalize" students for not having all their supplies the 1st day, 1st week of school.

LibertyOrDeath,
There are plenty of lies coming out of the admin offices and some of us have first hand experiences of this.But there maybe lies coming from the public as well but there is a key word called "COMMUNICATION" and if these folks were so concerned about lies being spead they would use our local news outlets to address these issues and take and answer questions from the public.

MM, You always say you are listening to the public. The problem is, there are other people posting in this forum who have a completely opposite opinion than you do. There are also people talking about the issue outside of the forum that have a different opinion than you. They are part of the public as well. As I recall, the election results for the levy and the bond were pretty close, that means that there isn't a clear public voice. The reality is that there aren't just two sides in the matter.

You have some who are opposed to any tax whatsoever. You have some who are only opposed to a tax increase. You have some who favor the levy but not the bonds. You have some who favor the bonds but not the levy. You have some who favor the bond and the levy, but the levy must have a sunset clause. You have some who who would let the levy go forever, some at the current rate, some at the proposed rate. There is no one "public" voice. So to say that anyone is or is not listening to the public is idiocy. The only "public" voice you keep screaming about is the on that agrees with you and emanates from your mouth.

I don't have a problem with your opinion (even though I disagree with most of what you say) or with you having an opinion, but the truth is and will always be that no two people believe the same thing about the issue. Hell, it's hard enough to make a bunch of you understand the city and the school district is not the same government and that the district covers more area than the city (overlapping governments with overlapping geographic areas and very different responsibilities and obligations). There are some that don't even know that the school board is the elected body that governs the district.

Instead of calling for resignations, why don't you start attending every school board meeting. Run for the school board. Hire your own auditor to audit the district's books and prove that they are doing something wrong. It's easy enough for everyone with an opinion to sit there and say what is wrong. You think they are doing something wrong, so put your money where your mouth is. If you can do a better job and you have all of the answers, then go ahead and make those changes. You remind me of Sheehan when he used to write the editorials for the News-press. He could find the faults but he could never offer meaningful solutions. He'd offer criticism without ever being constructive. Catch him in a position that he couldn't defend, he'd just change the argument.

H, I know about the names, numbers etc. I think they should also list their term in office and how long they have been in office.

Also, the Board are the elected members. The secretary is a district employee and should not be listed.

On a side point, if the city changes its council member elections to a more regular election date then what happens to the district board elections? Without moving those it will cost the district more money to hold the election.

cont...
The funny thing is that you say (and I know I said it too, just for a different reason), that they should have waited to close the schools for a few years. But ultimately, they would be closed. So are you saying that as long as the closures don't affect you right now, it will be okay to close them later? According to you, the children will still suffer as they will have to move. So in that aspect, it will never be okay to close the school: Remember, you are championing for the 1,400 kids that will be moved. And a move is a move for whatever reason the move occurs.

Now, regarding this specific article. There is no reason whatsoever, that children from Brittany Village were ever sent to Noyes while Hawthorne/Coleman was sitting there. If you are busing children from farther away to Coleman, then you keep on busing them to another school, no reason to bus children that are already within walking distance. The residents of Brittany have always been excluded from Coleman because of socioecnomic lines, now those lines get erased, probably due to socioeconomic differences. The question that remains, are these children that are still being moved to get in a "better school" going to perform better (because it is a better school), the same (it's still the same student), or worse (the move is traumatic and always causes lower performance)?

I hope someone is keeping really good statistics to the individual level, this is social case study unfolding in front of us.

apparently so, i think you are being kind of a smartaxx on this...... jmo.

My reaction to the comments above, related to Drs. Smith and Flowers is... when you get into the arena of leadership, which is also the political arena, that stuff happens. It goes with the territory, so expect it to happen. For the money they make, I'm sure that there are others who would be willing to take their jobs. Remember, for St. Joseph, what they make IS good money. The socio-economic issue is interesting to me. However, I ask this... is the situation strictly socio-economic or is it the anticipation of test score results and their effect on the district? That is something I have against that MAP test. If the problem is socio-economic, they should be integrated. If the problem is test scores, the whole thing ought to be looked at. I am sure there will be those who will answer that the scores affecting the downtown office are ALL test scores, and that is certainly true. But, by incorporating test scores into the mix, if done creatively, can keep schools out of trouble and they can keep their Blue Ribbon schools. For instance, students of a school that you don't think is going to do well on THE test could be planted all over town. That way, each school carries a minimal burden, but not enough to hurt their AYP. I state this NOT to castigate the downtown office. I say this because this is what sometimes happens when test scores rule the day.

Ever stop to think that the news outlets are not working with the district instead of the district not working with the outlets. Remember the news outlets choose what is published and what is not. As long as the NP keeps the pot stirred and contributes to the negativity then the topic will continue to draw readers (money). If the issue passes, then they have to find a new hot topic.

I've said it a million times but I will say it again. In order to overcome this issue, the community must come together. That includes the city council, chamber of commerce, the school district, the NP, KQ2, and the average Joe.

Every individual is entitled to an opinion but the city council, chamber of commerce, school district, NP, and KQ2 are the guiding forces which strongly influence that opinion. As long as some of those groups remain silent or continue to contribute to the negative attitude then there is no overwhelming uniting force and the citizens will remain deeply divided.

Yes, the SJSD needs a plan but it's a much bigger than SJSD. There needs to be a community plan that the majority can support and I am yet to see any of those guiding forces mentioned earlier that are willing to work with one another to create positive momentum.

Insideout,
This is fine and dandy but the district has a unwillingness to work with the average joe. I think the other group that presented a propsal to the board was a group that did represent all areas of town not the group that they choice to go with.I believe this group called themselves ACE. The task force was chosen because of the companys and the people associated with their group and a money trail. Which their only concern is the northeast part of town.The average Joe has no chance in hell working with these people because they do not respect the average joe.

In my opinion, the fact that the SJSD actually choose the Task Force benefits ACE in many ways as long as ACE uses it their advantage.

The people downtown appear to be continuing to play a game with the community and my guess is that none of them really expect the levy to pass in November. In their game, that plays into their favor. The SJSD, appears to be setting the Task Force up for failure...maybe unintentionally but that would be no shock to me.

The ACE group suffered a setback by the issue going back on the ballot so soon but failure of the issue seems inevitable at this point. What ACE needs to do now, is to continue the path they started in anticipation of the levy failing. If it does in fact fail, then they (and the community) are a step ahead. If the levy passes (is bought), then at least ACE got people involved, interested, and educated on the topic. Either way from that standpoint, it's a win-win.

thanks, inside out. we are done licking our wounds, and are focusing on the BOE elections and candidates. i would hate to say it, but i agree that the failure of the levy is an assumption, because our message to wait was largely predicated on it being the wrong time.... and the sunset/amount.

ace is also not just concentrating on school issues, but on any issues which challenge the community.

we are formulating a questionaire for candidates . also working with two groups which are trying to increase voter turnout in the midtown/northend. we have mapped out the neighborhoods which we have already canvassed.

Really? Which part, Heritage? No matter, I'd say you are wrong and that's what you get for thinking.

just letting everyone know that galen higdon is having a retirement party tonight fop, 6:30. bradley's refused to print anything about it, aren't they awesome? so, i am posting it on every article they have online!
thanks!

graphic, maybe because it is not news.

Galen Higdon is a good man I personally known for over 25 years. I hope you enjoy retirement Galen and good luck in whatever you chose to do.

ApparentlySo,
I guess you do not think I have listened to the public but you are wrong you can go out to the bank, grocery store, out to eat how can you not hear what the public is saying and listen to these people as they express their concerns and how upset they are. This mess must have not affected you directly or any of your children or you do not live in St Joesph.I heard a parent express her concerns to the princlple the other day and she was very fustrated.
Also think about it the people of the midtown/northend area(these areas represent Webster and Neely) they will turn out in full force to vote this levy down.I would volunteer to take any of these people that need a ride to the poll just for they can vote.I am glad to see that there is a group out there that is trying to make a difference and not stay with the status quo.

Yeah go out to eat. Funny thing is that I hear so much about how hard things are and how folks don't have the money right now but amazingly enough every eating establishment is somehow full.

Everyone keeps talking about how much they care about the children but who in their right mind is ever going to come out in a public forum and say..."I hate kids". The problem is that what many folks are saying is being contradicted by their actions. For pete's sake, the money saved from eating at home, for one extra meal, a month would have more than covered the cost of the levy and bond for a family.

So, the next time you’re waiting for a table or in line at the drive thru just think about the child standing, without a text book, in a crowded classroom and be thankful you've already made it through the school system. Also, if there's a kid (yours or not) in that line ask them their ABC's, numbers, a math problem, or history question...it promotes social interaction and it just might help the test scores go up.

MM, I'm sure you hear some people who share similar view points as yourself. You are either tuning them out or skipping over their posts, because there are others that do not share your view.

I'm a Northender and I am voting now and and before for the levy. I guess that means I will have to drive myself to the poll. I am directly effected by the district and their lines being redrawn. I consider why our district is in the mess it is in and my conclusion is the whole community is at fault. The super council, the board and yes we as citizens. We as a whole will never be 100% in agreement as to what should be done to better our district, but we all should try to at least agree to disagree, then move on. Repeating the same old arguments, how's that working for us? Some are not pleased with the board and administrators and ask for all to resign, that's just outlandish thinking. However, those who think that should spend their time at the board meetings explaining why, with proof, that people should be removed. If you want action then be reasonable and don't spend your time maligning the people who are spending their time trying to accomplish growth. We need to be proactive not reactive.

I'm a student at Eugene Field Elementary, well, it was 31 to 32 in both classes. Now we are getting 3rd 6th Grade Teacher!!!!! And so our classrooms before were in the basement with lockers and stuff. Now my class is in the teachers lounge on the first floor!!!! My friend Jilian got transfered here at Field, her grandma knows my mom, so we were supposed to be friends, it turned out we really were friends and we went to trails west together. I remember her saying "I do not want to be seperated from my friends again." Why can't they just build a school!!!!! It will stop all of this!!! The day I found out I was being put away from my best friend who I've been in the same class since kindergarden, and Jillian, I had a major breakdown! JUST BUILD A SCHOOL, AND IT WILL STOP ALL OF THIS!!!!! :(

Apple,
The above child posted and this is a good reason for you to stop your Word calling of people.

Abbby Palmer really is a 6th grader at Eugene Field.

Apple, My point to you since your are so darn blind, is to watch what you say and the names you call people if children are posting on here they do not need to see you do all of your name calling.I Have not stooped to your level and called people names you act like you are a school student yourself and if you do not get your way and people make you mad you stoop to calling people names.

GEES APPLE
I cannot beleieve you would tell people that this is not a child posting on here and NOT get my point about calling people names. Children do not need to be influenced to call people names.Or do you condone this behavior in front of children APPLE?
This child is asking for a new school and my answer to her is yes we do need new schools and I hope we get them for you and the other children in town as well,but there are some issues that need worked on before this can happen.

I can't believe people really gave Abby a thumbs down!! Lizzie is right Abby Palmer is a 6th grader at Field and she's upset, I know her parents and her grandparents. When are you all going to quit arguing on here, it's not accomplishing anything.
mm for once we agree on something, apple does need to watch the name calling. BUT you need to heed your own advice and get out and start making these changes instead of gripping about it to all of us, we obviously can't do anything and quite frankly I'm sick to death of listening to it!!!!!!!

reggie,
I am getting involved but not with this task force,as well all have stated we can disagree on how to help this situation and get the schools what they need.We all really want the same thing but cannot agree with each other on how to get there.

When Abby Palmer pays taxes, and reaches the age of 18, then she vote and try to change things by majority, but while in grade school whining to build a new school so she and her best friend can be together? That is assanine. We have enough schools, just a stupid way of dividing up the district lines. According to the district, in the SJNP the other day, they don't know why the lines were ever done this way and have no clue as to how it was divised, having been done years before. Please!!! and if you believe that, I have a bridge I can sell you. Either way they are there now and just redivided it, so now they are accountable. Stop the sentimentality and the if we don't want to vote for the higher tax, we hate kids. It is B.S. No one says no tax on these boards, some of us say no NEW Taxes, make due better on what they already have and ALSO that there is waste. Do you really think that once they get this raise, they are not coming back in a few years wanting more more more? AND in answer to the person who cannot read or was calling me a liar in my earlier post: MY CHILD WAS TALKED TO HARSHLY - in front of the entire class, for not having ALL her listed items the very first day of school this year even though they didn't even go all day and it was so much to carry, I divided in into two bags. AND, I didnt say I didn't think parents should BUY school supplies, I said the LIST IS TOO DANG LONG AND TOO DANG EXPENSIVE WITH TOO MANY THINGS THEY COULD REALLY DO WITHOUT. Has the intelligence rate just dropped dramatically in this town? Can we not read the comments carefully before we retort??? Jeez.

Out of the mouths of babes so the saying goes. True this young lady cannot vote and does not pay taxes, but I'm sure her parents do. I'm also sure this change in the district is monumental to her. She has voiced her opinion just like everyone else on here has and I hope one day she can say she stood up for what she wanted. One day I hope she will still reside in this town so she can vote and pay taxes. Perhaps that is what she is asking for a chance to have a better community so she may have children that will attend a new and improved school system within our city. Onward and upward.

Reggie, how can MM go out and start making changes when he is interested in changing the school district's attitude, and they refuse to listen or even talk honestly with him? I think there are 2 things that shape how a person is going to vote for a revenue issue. First, is the voters own financial well-being and that of his family. Secondly, is trust in the entity that he is going to be voting for. After the reading of these many comments, I don't believe trust is a premium the district has. As far as financial well-being, it seems that all we've heard about is closings and employee lay-offs. I must admit, I don't see the district's power elite doing too much to change the attitudes of the community. I must admit I am not impressed with the school board, but I have a hunch that there are not many old ex-board members who would want to serve on it now. Another thing that really intrigues me, is the fact that usually you hear about the rubber stamp school board, and I must admit that I find it kind of hard to believe that this particular school board went against the wishes of the superintendent in relating to the bond/levy issues in April. It would almost smack of a vote of no confidence toward the superintendent, by the board. The conclusion would be...if the school board did not trust in the superintendent's judgment in April, why should WE, in November.

teeter59,
I agree with you on the majority of your post,Please leave this child out of the middle. She is just a child that is upset as the other children in the district are about all of this change and all of the new children which they do not know.As It has been hard on these children as well.
And If I had a child that was talked to like this from a school teacher or school administrator about school supplys They would have one heck of a lot of explaining to do and probably be getting yelled at by me as well.
The schools will need additional money but we all have different outlook on how to get it for the schools and the children.

Apple maybe you should read again I also post to teeter59 not to bring this child into the middle of this and stated reason SO READ.

APPLE,
You are showing your true colors now.Your school yard bullyness.
Apple what do you want people to bring on?
You stuck your foot in there this time as I said I did reply to Teeter59 look above and read.

MM thinks the board belongs to them apple. I was not bashing the young child, I don't really believe a young child wrote that. I suspect that many of the postings come from other places. I would like the board posters to turn on their speakers and watch this.
TeaPartyCommercial.wmv
http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/15523565/1322781786/name/TeaPartyCommercial.wmv
And calm down a bit, I think many of us are arguing the very same viewpoint but are getting so emotional about it, we are not expressing ourselves well.

teeter59,
I can agree with you we are getting very emotional about this situation and topic because it does affect our communitys children.
We all have our beliefs and we are all not going to agree wth each other I understand this.Thank you and have a good night.

teeter59 you are right some of us get emotional, but you did seem to be directing that at abby before and you used all caps in some of your post, so it seemed as though you were yelling, although I'm sure you didn't mean it, right? btw I think you can tell by reading her post that she is a young lady and as I've said before I know her family and this is a true statement, at least about what's happening at her school

This article is ridiculous. I am glad I quit paying for the SJNP and I found out this year that the SJSD quit their subscriptions also. I guess they can print whatever they want, they just won't be making any money doing it:)

Also, to the people who think we have enough room with the schools we have. Come on in and take a look. Most are old and out of date, Bode's science lab is a joke.

Brittany Village does not attend Coleman because Coleman does not have room. Noyes has room. Webster is still being utilized, as Rainbows, Adult Education and preschool. It is not a wasted building. Most of you are saying shift the lines, but don't transfer my kid, that apartment building should go to Coleman, even though I said shift the lines, blah, blah, blah. I don't know why I waste my time on this forum!

Apple, when are you going to stop responding to MM1967, I skip over his comments and do not respond. Pointless.

I know I am goingto get jumped on for this one but whayare we paying to keep Webster open for kids who could have kept their noses clean and staying their high schools and why are we paying for this school to remain open to educate people who have quit school when they as well should have stayed in schools? This schools should still be utilized as Webster Elementary school not what the district is using it for.Sorry people but this school closing has caused all kinds of issues.I will be waiting to get told to forget it Webster is closed and all of that good stuff but these are my beliefs and opinions on this.
Brennen I am glad you skip my post because you are a status quo person.

Brennen, I am fascinated about your comment about the school district dropping their Newspress subscription. I think that is, politically, the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life! The school district wants a POSITIVE report from a newspaper that they have ceased to buy?????In our capitalistic society, I am utterly fascinated by that decision. Can anyone verify that? Your post left me utterly speechless....I can see you smiling from clear across town, Apple :)

Perhap this is a cost cutting measure and they bring theirs from home if needed.

238er,
A cost saving measure would the people at 10th&Felix take a pay cut since they folks are over paid to start with for the job thay have been doing.

So lets return them to the state averages.

The state average administrator pay is $80,208 and there would be 61 administrators in SJSD at the average. SJSD pays average of 86,121 and there are 43 administators.

So if we return to the average then the SJSD would incur a cost of $4,893,961 instead of $3,705,773. I'll let you pay the extra 1.188 million dollars plus benefits.

Dillygent1 - From your comments about the paper being a for profit venture, then in theory, the districts decision, if accurate, should help increase the profits of the NP. I'm sure that the SD, was getting a discounted rate and each individual paper could pass through multiple hands. Now, those "multiple hands" are left to either find another free source of news, go without the news, or buy the paper. From a profits position, I'd rather have 1000 new customers at full subscription price, then 1 customer receiving discounted rates and freely distributing the news to 1000 people.

dillygent1 August 24, 2009 at 10:16 a.m.
".... about the school district dropping their Newspress subscription. I think that is, politically, the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life! The school district wants a POSITIVE report from a newspaper that they have ceased to buy?????"

So dillybar, the School District should have to buy the paper to get positive press from the paper? And you think that is ok? Maybe the News suppress should just report the news in an unbiased fashion, regardless of who is buying their rag.

238er,
These folks in the administration offices are not even worth the state average. Some of them deserve to be in the unemployment lines for this mess they have created in our schools.
The first one in line needs to be Melody Smith.Benefits, what benefits have they taken away fron the schools and the children.We could go on and on.This is not a personal issues it is just these people are incompentent to perform their jobs. Are alway putting their foot in their mouths ect ect.I am glad these folks are some of your friends and you defend thenm as a friend should but they are lost.

Editor Steve Booher here. Here's the correct information about the school district canceling newspaper subscriptions. The News-Press participates in a program called "Newspapers In Education." In that program, we provide schools newspapers at a discounted price of five cents per copy. Many school districts in northwest Missouri and northeast Kansas use this program to provide their teachers, classrooms and libraries with copies of the newspaper.
This year, due to cost-cutting measures, the St. Joseph School said it would no longer provide those newspapers, even at the discounted price. Currently, the News-Press circulation department is trying to make arrangements to continue providing the newspaper to our local schools. One of the things we're looking into is creating a sponsorship program. If you would like to participate, contact Chris Wallace in our Circulation Department at 271-8605.
Also, Brennen, we appreciate your participation in our discussion boards. However, we do own this Web site. Thus, if you keep calling us names or continue to insult our reporters and editors, we will remove your comments. Feel free to disagree, but please keep the discussion polite. Thanks.

I don't think the News Press really cares whether or not the district has a paid subscription. The news room is a seperte operation from the subscription operation. Hell, even if they bought a subscription for every building it still wouldn't generate enough revenue to pay for the light bills at the printing plant.

steveb, good for you. If I want to insult a NP employee a I will do it like a man ... to their face while we enjoy an adult beverage. Most NP employees I know are intelligent hardworking people (possible exception of Marshall but I tell him that on a regular basis).

It would be nice if you would post the details of the sponsorship program once available. I would consider buying a subscription for my child's school or for another school.

Apple,
This is not HATE.How many time do I have to tell you I do not Hate anything or anybody this is the way I was raised not to HATE.Get it in your darn Head already.Melody Smth is that not her name? You can call her DR SMITH if you would like and that your choice as it is mine to call her Melody Smith or MRS SMITH. See I do not hate this women as you state I just have no RESPECT for her.You really need to get off of the HATE issue and calling people names. Grow up apple. Apple and what has happened is what the peoblem is and till the district addresses there issues thaey have made do you think it is going to get any better?If the levy is passed this November the district will not get this revenue till 2001 so there is either plenty of time for them to clean their mess up or for these elected board members to be replaced and some of the admin downtown replaced and then work on a long term plan.I do not know what you support you say you will note for the levy as well but continue to support these folks that have made some very bad decisions.
Now apple is I was speading Hate as you are calling people names I would have already stopped unlike you.I am just saying it as I see it. Do you think it is fair to our teachers that they have a pay freeze and the Administators are living high on the hog whe they are the ones who created this WHOLE mess?Teachers make consessions so should the admin.
Your name calling needs to stop.

I need to correct they will niotget the revenue till 20011 instead of 2001

I am sorry for all of the typos today in the above post. 2001 should be 2011.

Nobody but you apple.You are showing your true colors today again.Acting like a school yard bully as well as being sinical.You like to attack people post and when the shoe is one the other foot all you can say is we are HATERS.I guess you still have not learned CHILDREN are on here posting grow up and quit calling people names I am done with you today because we will never see eye to eye on anything.This is the same attitude that comes from Downtown.

mm, I believe the levy rate would kick in with the bills sent out for 1/1/10 not 1/1/11.

I beleive it was a consideration on putting the levy on for this election.

Perhaps if this wrong someone will provide a reference.

terrabutu, a very fine administrative type answer. Not a good answer as it relates to the political situation the district finds itself in, but it is a very classic administrative answer. If I am wanting positive strokes from the press, I darn well try to help them when possible. It is called a recripocal relationship. I guess administrators don't use that kind of filty language. After all, "I tell them what to do, they are to do it"!! Just being right is good enough unto itself. terrabutu, you may want to polish up your PR skills before the election.

Has anyone besides me ever wondered how many of these posts are read by members of the school board? Or, if any posters are actually school board members 'incognito'. If the general opinions expressed here represent the overall feeling of the population of our town, they must really not like what they see. Makes me feel glad for freedom of the press.

catwoman,
I have wonder this as well.But I would say that they do read these. And if anybody works for the admin that is one here it would be in my opinion 238er and apple.But this is just my thoughts.

There is no way the district has stopped subscribing to the paper. It is mandated by state the libraries have to carry at least one newspaper. I'm not saying there aren't other newspapers they can take, but the newspress has always given the district a reduced price and the librarians choose what paper they want. Given they have limited funds this year they will take the paper here in town over getting a higher priced paper that has nothing to do with this community. I know for a fact the maintenance department takes the paper I have seen it at their door as I drive to work.

Apple,
I am glad to see that you think I am a drop out and I do drugs.Now as far as I am concerned there is a difference with me thinking you work for the district in some capacity and you thinking I am a drop out and a drug addict.First you are attacking my character and now you are making it personal. If you had read any of my post I went to school here and gradusted her and got my further education here as well.You can continue this attack of my character all you want. I will not stoop to your level.Remember you have called me "STUPID",a "HATER",and a "IDIOT".What names have I called you? Let me answer that for you NONE.As other people have told you if people do not agree with your views and opinions you attack them.Why do you think I continue to come back at you for all of the time.Ok apple who are you? What is your roll in all of this?You see I am not the only person on here that has thought you work for the district in some way.Really I do not give a crap who you are or what you do for a living.It is people like you that have got our schools in this mess.People who think it is their way or noway, amd you do not like anybody going against you.You know apple you can say what ever the heck you want about me and it wil not get my goat as much as I get yours about telling people here on this board that you must work for the St Joseph school board.Before you call me a HATER I will do it for you.Have a good evening and I will await your belittling comments.

Mrs Smith I have lost all respect for here this is whay I do not call here by her title. See there is a difference in Hate and respect.We have other people within the district that could perform her job better and we should tap those resourses for the next Superintendent.I do understand your post very clearly they are Full of Hate.Read them see how many times hate is in your post.See these correnspondences back in forth between myself and you remind me of the district admin correnspondences with the public, they cannot comperhend that the parents of elementary student are mad for the mess they have created as well you cannot understand this as well.Why does it bother you so much that I think you work for the district if you do not work for the district.

After attending the School Board meeting this evening its apparent the administrationn is implementing the NCLB regulations so that they are benefiting the district and not the students. After further delving into the NCLB regulations, the district is not completely following them. Mrs. Patterson said that "choice" does not mean parents can choose from a list of approved schools, but "choice" means they can stay at their neighborhood school that failed AYP or they can choose to be transferred to a school that the district chooses for them based on transportation. Tonight a parent said she is in the Noyes district and her child was a career transfer to Pershing. She completed her AYP school of choice transfer request and listed Pershing as her first choice. But her child was transferred to Coleman because the majority of Noyes children had selected Coleman as their first choice. Mrs. Patterson said all the Noyes AYP requests were sent to Coleman because it was easier to transport them. This parent said she did not need the distric's transportation as she had taken her child to Pershing for the last 6 years. But Patters said even if she could transport her own child to Pershing it was still not allowed, because the district was required to provide the transportation and she may need it in the future, and transporting across town was not feasible.

I found this on the Department of Education's website:

Defining transportation zones. To further facilitate providing transportation, some larger districts have opted to set up defined transportation zones based on geographic location, and offer transportation to families exercising public school choice only in schools within a certain zone or zones. Parents may still be able to choose a school for their child that is outside the designated zone(s), although the district may not provide transportation directly for that student, or may choose to defray only a portion of the costs associated with transporting the student to and from the school.
In defining zones, districts should make decisions based on genuine issues of distance, and should strive to include in each zone a range of transfer options that is as diverse as possible.

From reading the above it is clear to me that this parent can take her child to Pershing. Am I wrong?

I was not impressed with any of the administration tonight. But I commend the board for asking questions of the parents in attendance and actually trying to understand our concerns.

More BS coming from the school board and the administration.When they tell thing like lizzy has stated above and the parent do the reasearch and find that they are lying to them says it all. And we should trust these people.I think not.Tese people do not fully understand these laws as we do not understand them but the childrens parents at least take time to llok the info up before hand and not try do the things the district has done. If this is what is going on it looks to me after reading what you found on the Department of Educations web site I would call them in Jefferson City tommorow to clarify it and then if this is the case they have to let you transfer to Pershing as long as you take and pick up your child or I would turn them in. See these folks still remain their own worst enemys.Seems as if their reason maybe they are overcrowded at all of these shcools now and they do not know what to do at this point.Maybe these folks are startingto break and will resign as the heat continues to come their way.Mrs Patterson is another piece of work, she is trying to cover her own butt but it may seem as if she is going to be getting it in a little of trouble soon.These are my opinion but these folk seem to think they can just push people around and there is nothing that will happen to them, I believe the state deptment of educations phones should ring off of the hook when these folk try to pull crap.

The district has not taken the problem of underperforming schools seriously and now they are not taking the consequences of having underperforming schools seriously. The district even now tries to depict this not as a problem but as the appearence of a problem that's all because of those pesky expectations and requirements that the DESE has.

Most telling of all was Cheri Patterson's assertion that when when all of our schools fail to meet targets this problem will all go away... all we have to do is wait it out for a couple of years...

lizzie I found this as well
On the Department of Education's website:

Defining transportation zones. To further facilitate providing transportation, some larger districts have opted to set up defined transportation zones based on geographic location, and offer transportation to families exercising public school choice only in schools within a certain zone or zones. Parents may still be able to choose a school for their child that is outside the designated zone(s), although the district may not provide transportation directly for that student, or may choose to defray only a portion of the costs associated with transporting the student to and from the school.
In defining zones, districts should make decisions based on genuine issues of distance, and should strive to include in each zone a range of transfer options that is as diverse as possible.
I think as well that we pay so much school tax that we should decide where I children should go. I think when the child can feel comfortable about where they go they will learn better as well!!
I think in the end they would see that the count would come out about the same. I think if you could just choose where your child goes people would take more ownership of the situation and it would be better for everybody!!
Who knows maybe the tax levy would pass then!!

mm, I don't see the lie. The law allow the district to form these zones and they did. It appears the law gives the district some latitude to make a reasonable effort to control costs. Since not enough parents in that areas chose Pershing the extra expense had to be controlled.

Like it or not staying put is a "choice".

238er-

The law says that the parents need to have choices even if a zone is made. These parents weren't given a choice, the district did it for them.

The law also states if they deny their first choice the parent can provide the trasportation themselves. The parent tonight was not allowed this.

Well, Coleman or Noyes is a choice. Perhaps it was not communicated clearly. While I did get to see a letter briefly I did not have my reading glasses with me so ....

If the parent was not adequately informed that is a problem but I often deal with people who fail to read the papers sent them and that is usually the problem.

In setting up transportation zones (which the district said it did tonight) they have to offer more than one alternative school choice if there is one in the district. There are 4 within our district. This parent chose Pershing (which is not at capacity) and declined the districts transportation. NCLB clearly states she should still be able to go to her first choice.

Mrs. Patterson said they used a "form letter" from the federal government. You can find an example on the DESE website. The application for public school choice asks the parent to list in order their school of preference. Why would this be on the form if it does not have to be taken into consideration?

SteveB – Thank you for updating us on the situation between the News-Press and the school district. It should have been left at that but since it wasn’t I will take this opportunity to also thank you for clearly proving my point about the community mentality. As you stated, “We do own this Web site. Thus, if you keep calling us names or continue to insult our reporters and editors, we will remove your comments.”

Please point out where Brennen participated in any name calling or was insulting. You are foolish if you believe that I think any of your reporters or editors are insulted by comments such as, “This article is ridiculous” or “I guess they can print whatever they want”. I’m quite positive that in your lengthy careers at the News- Press both you and Mr. Weston have dealt with much harsher criticism.

At the risk of being banned from the NP blogs, let me translate your quote, if we don’t like what you are saying then we will not display it. Basically, the same treatment the school district has given the community, the same treatment some have given to a sixth grader, and most likely the same treatment the school district gives to the News-Press (and vice versa). All summed up very clearly by one of the News-Press’s own. Nearly EVERY individual, company, and organization has this mindset to a certain degree and it is exactly why we, the community, can’t and will not progress forward. We must put this monumental issue aside, hear the thoughts of others, and come together in compromise if we want to move forward.

In all fairness to the NP, I have not seen them remove many (or any) comments that question their articles or reporters as long as those comments were done in a tasteful manner...I sincerely hope that continues to be the situation. My point in calling out Mr. Booher's comments is not intended to inflict harm to him or the NP but rather to highlight a community mentality that is getting us NOWHERE, that includes our children and their futures.

238er,
This parent was at the meeting and asked these questions and was told wrong it seem to me after reading the info on this issue. Now as it seem they are breaking laws now. Do these folks think they are above Federal laws?Where will they stop and quit bullying people? Why does this board we have continue to let this go on? Why are they not addressing the issues at hand?Why are they not listening to the general public? Why do they only ask questions the majority of time and not take any questions? Why would the public trust these folk for anything and trust them with our tax payer revenue?See it seem as this whole mess plays out there are more and more questions that are going to go unanswered by these folks. Maybe they do not know the answers or just maybe do not care what we think and are not going to answer anybody.I hope this parent reads the information about this or someone in the community tells them and they call the district out on the carpet about it and if they do not get the answer they want they call the state dept of education.I would just like to see these folks held accountable.These are my opinions and beliefs.

Lizzie, You rock! I think this school district needs counseling and I heartily recommend you.

i actually agree with the busing of kids that live in the apartment complex on 36th street to Noyes. They are ensured safe transportation! Has anybody ever noted the lack of safe walking paths or sidewalks around or leading to Coleman? This is not the school district's fault but rather the city. Those are two busy streets, 36th and Beck...

I realize the conversation is not necessarily on building new schools, but I think it is a wake-up to when a proposed school building is proposed--that infrastructure is in place to carry a large number of students to the school, safely. Coleman is a prime example of what I am talking about. For a school that large, better planning of a large school being placed there, should have happened. I would be interested in knowing what the anticipated number of students, expected to go to Coleman was, when it opened. I realize this is not the school district's responsibility. It is the city's. But I'm not sure sufficient dialog went on between the school district and the city, when it was planned. I don't know how many neighborhood schools can honestly say that there is a safe passageway to the school, for students who walk. Can anybody come up with a school that DOES have adequate infrastructure to support the number of students who are going to it? I'm talking about adequate infrastructure for the load (meaning number of students) who use it now, in the 2009-2010 school year. Since Apple hasn't been mad at me since I suggested building steel school buildings, I have another one for her: How about new precast concrete school buildings?

Sorry, my last post was supposed to go with another story.

Catwoman, I believe this forum is read by many high profile, well educated and skilled people, including those from the administration and BOE. I also believe many of those people participate under psuedo names, just by the tone some of the comments are written as well as the vocabulary and the apparent knowledge some seem to have about specific things. My opinion is pretty clear on this, the use of pseudo names is a convenient way for people to take shots at each other that they would be uncomfortable with by using their real names. Call it an outlet, political fallout, plausible denialbility, whatever, but this debate with the school issues have been going on for just about a year on here. It is the single most topic that is talked about. I believe the use of the pseudo names on here has only escalated the tension and the division when it comes to the attacks and good, respectful, debate is thrown out the window. The forum has really brought to light in my view why things have not progressed very far in this town over time. . There are some real hardline divisions within the community that need to find solutions. Reading these comments is clear evidence of that. Until those divisions are resolved and common ground is found to progress forward, there is always going to be struggle. This particular article has generated some very "vicious" responses in my view. And those thought processes carry over outside of the forum into the general public that does not help. Some of those responses have came from very highly educated and high profile people in my view. And that is unfortunate.

I think Apple is either a member of the administration or totally has a crush on Dr. Smith. Just my opinion - of course!

John, in regard to the use of pseudo-names...I would much rather the comment stand on its own value, than attaching a person's name to that comment. If, for example, a person sees my comment, with my real name on it, the knowledge of who I am, will influence their attitude toward my comment. I am far more interested in having my thoughts on these boards, and having them weighed by their substance, rather than having readers attach whatever attitude they have about me, to the substance of the comment. Yougottabekiddingme, Could be. :)

Dillygent1-this is another topic where we will have to agree to disagree on. I believe comments are able to stand on their value regardless of who's name is attached to them. I countless times do not agree with highly educated and professional people who have an opinion and put their name to it. It does not matter to me what status they may have, position they hold, title they carry, etc. I gauge each opinion and comment based on its content, what it is addressing, tone, validations if the comment warrants it, and of course whether or not it is just a sheer attack on anyone. We should be comfortable putting our names to what we have to say and be able to stand by them. That is my opinion. And any issue where individuals may have an influence or are in decision processes that affect the general public, are going to cost the public money in taxes, etc, in my view should have the confidence to use their own name in what they have to say and what they believe are the best course of directions.
Case in point, Dr. Schaaf recently came on the forum in another topic and defended his position, even challenged some posters to validate their thought processes. He put his own name to it. While I may not totally agree with all of his positions, he took time out and came on a public forum to address an issue, challenged some members of the public who would not put their own name to their comments and stood by what he had to say. He validated his positions. I have a very high respect for that approach. When the time comes for electorate seats to be filled, and he is in the playing field with others running against him, I will remember that as a deciding point on my vote as most will be doing the typical campaign speeches, etc and not go out of the "comfort box." He did and those are the kind of people I want to see in elected offices.

On the other side, several people on here have stated repeatly over and over again how involved they are in the community and how they will or are considering running for an elected seat. They comment on leadership traits, hammer at the majority of people in the community for not being involved, etc, and their messages are conveyed under pseudo names. I do not know who they are, so how do I know what involvement they really have? How can I vote for them or even support them when the time comes? In my view, a leadership trait is standing by what you have to say with good validations to support your argument and have the confidence to put your name to it. As election time comes closer, most likely if those people run I will figure it out based on similarities of their comments relative to their campaign platforms. However by then, they have already lost my vote because they did not have the confidence to put their name on a simple forum. Goes right to the core of the NP reccomendations on this forum from when people first sign on.

Yougottabekiddingme the last time I told Apple I thought she worked for the administration she came back and called me a high school drop out and a drug addict,or you have a mental problem and you need help.She will attack your character like she did mine.But I still believe she has something to do with this administration in some fashion.But if she does no wonder the district is in a mess with the way she thinks.

Apple,
You state you are sticking up for them and I can appreciate your position,but they fact remains you are the minority not the majority.And thanks for attacking my character again with your comment about my(mind).Theres a big difeerence in saying someone work for the district and calling people names apple think about that one for awhile or does your one track mind not work that well.
Seem as a few people are calling for their jobs as well. And I personally think that this will happen before anybody passes a levy for these people in charge.

John, As you say, we will continue to disagree. You are interested in an elected office. I am not. I, too, am active in the community. However, I don't plan on running for any elected office at this time. If I ever do, I will make sure everybody knows who I am. As for right now, my main goal for this school district is for it to be nicer to its employees and to the public, who pays its salaries. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Dillygent1-Its a good goal, I can certainly respect and support that. I definitely agree on that element. Communicate straight with the public, stop glossing things over, and stop treating the public as though they are idiots and do not understand things. And address the issues.