November 08, 2009
What's Inside:
City isn't ready to get rid of trolleys
Future of vehicles yet to be determined
Future of vehicles yet to be determined
Photo by Todd Weddle / St. Joseph News-Press / Purchase this photo
Dust covers one of the two city trolleys that sit idle and covered in the transit parking lot. The trolleys, purchased in 1989, were last used in 2004.
St. Joseph’s historic trolleys won’t hit the Downtown streets anytime soon.
But at least they’re not leaving town.
City staff pitched an idea to City Council members last week to move the trolleys from the transit system to the Parks Department, where they will be stored for future use.
High costs and low ridership led the city to mothball its trolleys before the 2005 summer season. Last year a prospective buyer offered to pay $25,000 apiece for the vehicles. The city declined the bid, and last week’s decision ensures the trolleys will stay in St. Joseph for the near future.
“If the city doesn’t intend to use them in the next 10 years, sell them. If they will be used, let’s get them out of the transit system,” City Manager Vince Capell told council members.
The city currently lacks the money required to put the two vehicles and their high-mileage diesel engines in working order after almost five years in storage.
St. Joseph Transit Manager Kurt Janicek estimated it would cost about $10,000 to put the trolleys in shape suitable for occasional charter use or $30,000 to $50,000 to prepare them for daily duty.
“We still change the oil and maintain them, but an engine can break down on blocks,” Mr. Janicek said.
The city has spent about $4,500 per trolley per year to store and insure the vehicles since they were taken out of service.
A specific role for the trolleys has yet to be determined. Mr. Capell speculated they could be used to shuttle visitors between Downtown and the riverfront area near the Remington Nature Center. Council members discussed other possibilities, such as taking visitors in and out of Krug and Hyde parks during festivals to cut down on the amount of cars that clog the park roads.
In the past, the trolleys took visitors on tours of Downtown. Figures from 2004 showed that 69 percent of riders didn’t get off at the stops. They merely paid for a relaxing ride.
“We’ve been looking at moving them from transit for a while because it’s not a transit function,” Mr. Capell said. “We don’t use the trolleys like we use the buses.”
The city last operated the trolleys in 2004 between Memorial Day and Labor Day. The trolleys cost the city more than $40,000 to run and generated less than $2,500 in revenue. Mr. Janicek said the city’s bill worked out to $92.51 per passenger — not a moneymaker by any means.
“The cities that run the trolleys are doing it as a public service for tourism,” Mr. Janicek said. “They don’t really make money, but if we ever get Downtown running again, it would be a great place to run a trolley.”
Clinton Thomas can be reached at clintonthomas@npgco.com.
This story has 15 comments. Click here to join in on the discussion.
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To me, that's crazy, keeping something you never use, paying high dollar for maintenance and losing money on them even while in use. Seems like a no-brainer. The wood finish has to be redone every few years, the diesel engine doesn't exactly get good gas mileage and the seats aren't that comfortable.
Well then we as a community should help the city in figuring out ways to use them. Old Town Trolley in San Diego for example charges a pretty hefty daily fee for day use of them. It may seem like alot of money to the customer, until you consider where it takes you and what you can see with it without driving and worrying about parking. There is a lot to see and do in St Jo, and in my view if all the tourism organizations could find a way to chip in to help it out, it could be a beneficial thing. Come up with a Museum/Park tour, Festival tour, Girls night out tour (like the Josephine magazine adverstises, instead of a limo, make it a trolley tour), etc. There are alot of other ideas I believe the community can come up with. Atchison makes it work, they are alot smaller then we are.
It is certainly nice to see at least discussion on it.
wow, i heard there were trollies, but those are very nice looking !!!! they should be an asset..........
I know of more than once that the city has been offered money for the trolley's. When asked Mr. Capell says they are not for sale.
I think the Chamber of Commerce should help support them. They can bring in tourist.
I would love to see them used for a tour of St. Joseph. Where you could pay a fee and ride the buses from different musuems. Then Mr. Chilcote do a little documentary that would play inside and tell the history of old buildings, the cementary's, how Krug park use to be, etc... You could even charge for the commentary with little hand held devices for the sound, like Union Station does for the shows they bring in. Their is so much history in St Joseph, it could be a great attraction, with different routes. I would pay for that and I live here. It has tons of possibilities. If I had the money that is what I would buy the trolleys for.
Oh, but they are not for sale.
Bring out for special events, people love em
wouldn't it be really nice if these were operational for the 100th anniversary of the pony express re-ride? there is CERTAIN to be national media in joetown for that event. what a grand thing it would be to have them to move people from central parking areas to the museum!!!!!
We are not and never will be Old Town San Diego or Downtown San Francisco or any of the other places where this kind of trolley operates on a profitable basis. We need to sell them now while they still have some value and cut our losses. We have buses, they aren't cute, but they are usable and we have a daily use for them so that we are not blowing money unneccessarily. I wish we could be a big giant tourist attraction too, but sorry no, it is never going to happen.
Trolley's could sure boost tourism here in St. Joseph. Last time we visited Hannibal, MO., the town was using them and tourism had skyrocketed.
The downtown one-way streets here are a big turn-off too, business's there are dying, two-way streets would make a big difference!
While it's true that we "are not and never will be Old Town San Diego or Downtown San Francisco or any of the other places where this kind of trolley operates on a profitable basis," it doesn't mean that we COULDN'T be the kind of place where trolleys operate on a profitable basis. Have you ever looked at the buildings in downtown Saint Joseph? I mean, really looked at them, underneath the grime and the 70's updating and the boarded windows? Or driven down Hall Street and looked at those magnificent homes? Or even participated in one of the homes tours of some of our most precious and underappreciated resources to see those absolutely gorgeous homes from the inside, much the same as they must have been in their heyday?
The reason we have not moved forward in this community is because we fail to acknowledge the possibility that we could be effin magnificent and then dwell on what we don't have going for us. Dream a little. Go wild. Stop fighting over stupid stuff and electing people with axes to grind and people to smack with steaks to positions of power and maybe we could actually accomplish something. Instead of complaining about things being the way they are, put on your gloves and your boots and rake the muck so it looks better. If nothing else, go to a Mustangs game.
And yes, I do practice what I preach.
hcat, i always love your posts!!!!! you should call the j c wyatt house and sign up for the fabuous cooking class this weekend. it promises to be wonderful, and the place is breathtaking.
Guys, I love this town, the parks and walking paths. I love the architecture. I love the museums, I even love the new nature center. But we will never be Old Town SD-we have no ocean, no beaches, no Mexican border-thank God. I would love to see downtown back the way it was when I was child-I miss Woolworth's and T & W and Katz's drugstore cafe. I wish I knew how to get it all back the way it was, wait, I do know-money money money. And no one has it right now and no one wants to spend it on downtown if they do. Sorry to be a downer, I guess I am just worn out by the current financial crisis and the very current heat. You let me know a sure fire way to fix it and I will vote for it.
leonie, call you council reps and give them support for the downtown TIF. the vote comes up soon.
Don't forget that tomorrow evening there is a meeting at F.O.P hall with Councilpersons Labass & Bozarth to discuss the downtown TIF. Whichever side you are on, be there and share your thoughts. Sadly, I'll be out of town.
Historic Trolleys? Sorry St. Joseph, what you have put in your photo is NEITHER historic, nor a TROLLEY. In order to have a Heritage Trolley (true historic trolley) one must have STEEL WHEELS ON STEEL RAILS. THAT is what they have in San Francisco, San Diego, Little Rock, Memphis, New Orleans, even Ft. Smith. Some 70 cities plan such systems including Jacksonville. An experiment in Tuscon, with faux trolleys demonstrated that even at 1/2 fare and nearly 24/7 operation they couldn't get as many boardings as the real thing. Check out http://www.freewebs.com/lightrailjacksonville/
or
http://www.lightrailnow.org/features/f_lrt_2007-03a.htm
Real Heritage Trolleys have been returning $1,200 dollars in new development for every dollar invested. But they DON'T come with steering wheels.
OCKLAWAHA