Maybe the local contractors will remember this and submit a lower bid next time a project comes around. It is very common for buyers to accept the "lowest and best" bid. If you are not that bidder then perhaps you should re-evaluate your costs to make yourself more competitive.

More union whining, it never stops.

the decision was dictated by the use of state tax credits. don't blame the university because the local contractors failed to come in with a lower bid. i do hope that the university will keep a tight rein on cost over runs. it would stink if this kansas company gets the contrct and then comes in with time and expense overages.

this article clearly states that crossland will hire local contractors.

I totally agree with the last two comments. He who bids the lowest & best gets the job. If the company from out of town bid lower than someone in this area, perhaps the union should have reevaluated the situation & utilized their bid adjuster. Considering that Crosslands will more than likely compensate the workers from Kansas for travel etc., they still had the lowest bid. Would it make more sense for Missouri Western to pay more money than they have to, just to ensure that only local workers are involved? I'm sure that all of the dissatisfied union employees will be out in from of Blum Student Union with their lawn chairs & signs come 5:30 pm on Thursday, so they can pitch a fit like they always do when they don't get their way. If they really want to work and get paid, maybe they should spend that time seeking other employment opportunities with one of the companies who may be used as a subcontractor for this project.

Have the union leaders even considered the possibility that THEY might be to blame (through wage and benefit demands) for the local bids being too high? Hmmmm?

i agree and disagree with the above statements
but .... i still think they should have hired st. joe contractors, not just missouri.

i still think it is a bad idea.... look what it is already doing and it's not even here yet!

Why is everybody so quick to point the finger and lay the blame with the unions?

photobug, read for comprehension. the origin of the funding absolutely prohibits the practice of giving props to local bids. the university was not able to do anything about that.

third paragraph reads....... "Missouri Western State University officials say they would have liked to use local labor, but they were BOUND BY STATE STATUTE to use the lowest bidder. State tax credits will pay for construction."

ceebee2: How could the local union leaders be to blame on a prevailing wage job? The whole idea of prevailing wage jobs is to level the field although I'm sure some construction companies have ways around it (submitting false reports, etc)
Ask NWMSU how well some low bids worked out for them a few years ago when a non union HVAC contractor totally screwed up the job and they had to hire a reputable firm to come in and fix it( at a cost exceeding the original HVAC bid). I'm not saying that Crossland does shoddy work because I don't know, but sometimes the low bid isn't the best bid. GO CHIEFS!!

Looks as if the good ole boys club took a blow this time with a out of state contractor winning the bid for the Chiefs training facility. The unions in this town believe all of the work belongs to them and nobody else. There are non-union contractor around that do just as good of a job as you guys do and you all try to keep them from getting jobs all of the time. Everyone needs to work union and non-union workers. The local union workers are trying to get rich quick which makes the local contractors have to bid high, this was a bidding process and the local guys could not compete.The contractor that got the job has said he was going to sub out to local contractors so quit whinning until they do not provide the local guys any jobs.Also if you all ever consider that the reason the local contractors did not get the job was because of the union member demands for rediculus wages and benefits that you just have to have. Live like the rest of america and make about 18.00 hr or less and benefits or unemployed due to the economy and I am sure you will always have work year round. But from dealings with the local union workers in the past the first non-union contractor that is given a contract you all will be out there in your lawn chairs yelling and screaming at the worker.

Has anyone checked to see if the company that got the bid is union or not?

Using unions tend to drive the cost of projects up, just look at the auto industry and any other industry that has been unionized.

Missouri Western didn't really have a choice. They are bound by state laws on the bid they accepted. I would've been nice to see a local company get the bid, but that didn't happen. At least they will use some local subcontractors for the job.

Here we go with the auto industry again. The UAW is NOT the only union out there, people. And it's not the union's fault that the auto industry is in such bad shape. The CEOs and other big company people aren't taking pay cuts either. Get over it!

And, using unions may tend to drive costs up some, but most of the time you get better quality work, too. If I'm building something, I think I'd like to have good quality. Not saying this contractor doesn't do quality work because I don't know anything about them. I just hope they do a good job.

And, please stop blaming the unions.

Union_man,
I am blaming unions because it's unions officials that are the ones complaining about not getting the job. They claim to be upset simply because a local company didn't get the bid but I have to ask - would they have said anything if a local non-union company got the bid? You better believe they would! They would likely have whined even louder! If you want to get jobs, they need to submit a lower bid next time, it is as simple as that.

taxedout,
I have done just as many repairs to work performed by union workers as I have non-union workers. Don't try to make people believe that being in a union autoamatically makes someone a better worker, it is just not true.

Union_man,
Just out of curiosity, when is the last time you heard of a non-union company complaining about a union shop getting a job? Never! Because they understand that they have to work hard and bid low to EARN those jobs, they don't expect people to just hand them work.

He_who, I didn't mention whether the contractor that fixed the NWMSU problem was union or not. I detect that you are a little biased against unions? I know many union workers who work hard, take care of their families, and do quality work.
I should explain myself better on prevailing wage:
All the bidders must pay their help based on union scale for their craft for the duration of the project. In other words local unions did nothing to drive their price higher than anyone else, they all had to bid using the local union pay scale for all the different crafts (electrician, plumber, carpenters, sheet metal workers, etc).

MichaelH: Who in St. Joseph could build such a project?

We have several general contractors in town who have built BIGGER projects than this! The WRDCC (prison)-Lawhon Const
Heartland Hospital- Lehr Const

You act like this is beyond the local contractor's ability when in fact it isn't even a complicated job compared to a prison or hospital.

MichaelH,

I'm not sure what kind of experience you've had with unions in the past, but I don't appreciate the kind of hateful attitude that you and others show towards unions. We work just as hard, support our families, and are important parts of our community just like others are. If you have a personal hatred towards unions, that's your problem, but don't tell me to get lost. I don't know what you do, but I for one wouldn't complain about you doing your job and tell you to get lost without even knowing anything about you.

And St. Joseph DOES have contractors that could handle this project. And I don't even know if they're union or not. I think we as a community need to stand together and hope that our community can start to do some good and grow. Instead of pointing the fingers at the unions, how about coming up with a solution to our own local economic shortcomings. This project would be a huge boost to our local economy. I would've loved to see a local contractor get the work.

Union_Man,
I disagree with you regarding the auto industry and the UAW. It's a proven fact that the union contracts of the past number of years have been a strangle hold on the industry. While I don't lay ALL the blame on the UAW, they SHARE the blame for the auto industry being in the shape it's in. I'd also say that I used to work for TWA...one of the greatest airlines of all time...totally rich with aviation history. I'd like to make the point that, in my opinion, while the unions, again, weren't totally at fault for TWA's demise, they share a large part of the blame...like it or not. I know THAT for a fact.
The problem is, the unions have fostered a "culture" of entitlement and laziness. I know some of you will totally disagree...especially "Union_man". However, I've worked for companies for years that had unions, and I've seen it over and over. I'm not impuning YOUR work ethic, Union_man, but the facts are still there....to many union workers want premium pay for substandard work. You indicated to MichaelH that you don't appreciate the "hateful attitudes" he, and others, have expressed toward unions. Perhaps that attitude is well-deserved.

Apple,
That was a fair question...and one that deserves an answer. Perhaps that could, and should, have been written into the bid process? It's ALSO possible, however, that the SJSD would be bound by the same bid requirements, regardless of their claim to use local companies. You can say whatever you want, but sometimes the law prevents you from fulfilling your word...know what I mean? Still....that was a very thoughtful, inciteful question....

Pops,
You will have a fair share of lazy workers in any industry, union or not. I've had my share of non-union jobs myself, and I just know from experience that union employees have better wages, benefits, etc. So, is that any reason to hate your neighbor? Because he's union. Or the guy you sit next to in church? Instead of hating or being mad at union employees, why not be happy for them and their families? That's one of the things that's wrong with our society. Too many people are concerned with being mean and hateful over things they have no control over instead of being happy and supportive of things they do. As a union official, I may not always agree with management, but I respect them and do everything I can to get along with them and have a good or decent working relationship with them. Life's too short. As the saying goes, "Can't we all just get along"?

The contractors in this town are held hostage by the trade unions in this town and Missouri is not a right to work state ,but look at the states where there are more non-union workers for example Texas they have a whole lot better economy than we do and always have but this is just one state there are plenty more states out there which are right to work states with better economy than ours.There are alot of good hard working union members out there but you all have alot of lazy members which in return give you all a bad rep.Companys will build plants where there are non-union workers and they get treated just fine and 9 times out of 10 better benefits so there is no need for a unions anymore, for what to take your money and sit on their butts and get fat and protect the lazy union worker while the hard working member has to work twice as hard to cover for the lazy one the union is protecting, what is so darn great about this.There are more laws on the National labor relations to protect you than a union and it is free.Keep paying those dues for nothing.

mm1967 point to the doll and show me where the bad ole union touched you.

Seriously its obvious you have a bias and no understanding how union construction works. First of all if you are a lazy or poor worker you dont have a job. I gather your experience with unions to be semi-skilled or unskilled positions at a factory which is a whole different situation.
Union construction workers do not have the cradle to grave benefits such as the ones that have broken our auto industry. Most union construction trades have a 4 or 5 year training program that is not only on the job but requires additional classroom training in the evening as well multiple times a week. These apprentices do not get paid for this classroom time either much like people who go to college. Many unions also offer continuing education.

The NLRB is basically there because of labor unions and Texas also has a MAJOR oil industry as well. Go to the NLRB website and the 1st paragraph is
"The National Labor Relations Board is an independent federal agency created by Congress in 1935 to administer the National Labor Relations Act, the primary law governing relations between unions and employers in the private sector."

Im not saying all your arguments are flawed just most of them are.

Union_man.
Exactly where did I say anything about "hating" anyone? I made my opinon clear with regard to unions. I'd have to say that I DO agree with you that laziness resides in both sides...union AND non-union. The difference, my friend, is that it's rather easy to eliminate a lazy, unproductive, non-union employee, but almost impossible to do the same for a lazy, unproductive union worker. While working in the airline industry, I saw a rather alarming percentage of workers who did NOTHING...for weeks and weeks on end, while others of us carried the burden of the work. I saw union employees smoking for 8 hours...never leaving the breakroom. I heard employees bragging about how many months it had been since they unlocked their toolboxes. That's inexcusable, wouldn't you agree? Those sort of workers wouldn't last long in a non-union shop. Unfortunately, they DO last in a union shop. What I've said is not hateful, but, instead, truthful. Sometimes the truth hurts, though.

taxedout,
"When a non union HVAC contractor totally screwed up the job and they had to hire a reputable firm to come in and fix it" Don't be silly, your implication was very clear.

Yes, I am biased against unions. They always think their workers are better than anyone else and they also think they deserve special treatment. They ALWAYS complain if something doesn't go their way. I have worked with many union and non-union contractors/workers over my many years and overall the initiative and work ethic of non-union workers is definitely better, plus they don't act like prima donnas. The level of skill is equal as is their quality of work.

Pops,
I apologize. I never meant to imply you were hateful. I was talking more about MichaelH, whom it looked like you were defending. So, my apologies. I will disagree with you, however. I've worked non-union jobs, also, and seen my fair share of lazy workers. Some of these workers were the bosses "chosen ones". They were so lazy, but since they played golf with or kissed the bosses butt, they never got punished for their laziness. Often times they were rewarded or treated better. That is the aspect of business where it is helpful to have a union. They do their best to make sure people are treated fairly, overtime is distributed evenly, etc. Sorry, but I love my union and happen to believe unions are a huge asset to our country.

Then again this morning on NPR they had a story about the unions at the Boston Globe reaching agreement with the parent company (NY Times Co.) to keep the paper alive ... they gave up lifetime employment guarantees!

No real need to apologize, Union_man. While I don't disagree with the substance of MichaelH's post, I do disagree with the way he said it, perhaps. However, I said what I did to make you understand that there's a difference in being anti-union and "hateful". Just because I disagree doesn't mean I hate you, unions, or union-sympathizers.
While I understand there are some "non-union" favorites out there who are protected by their boss, that's not all that common. What WAS common was the culture of laziness I witnessed in the airline industry. Now...that said...I can't lay ALL the blame on the union. I'd say that spineless managers/foremen were equally to blame, for not enforcing existing work rules. Their reasoning was they desired to avoid having to tangle with the union leadership. I can tell you this...worst case scenerio....I know of a couple of union workers whose jobs the union fought to save, after they physically assaulted a manager, burned his desk and office area, leaving the man in the hospital. Not only were criminal charges NOT filed, they were allowed to continue working there!!
Sorry, my friend, but unions, by and large, are not helpful.

A non-union related comment:
Of you all concerned about keeping money local: Remember, since they don't live close by, they will be spending money all over town. Restaurants, hotels, grocery stores, etc. will get an influx of extra money. Yeah, it sucks that the 4 local businesses didn't get their bid. But also think of all the money that will come into town during the Chiefs' training camp. I think following the lowest bidder to gain the state funding was a wise decision on the part of Mo West. Call me crazy, but I like not only the Chiefs being here in St. Joe, but I like the *cough* tourism money that comes to town.

It's unfortunate that a St Joseph or MO company did not get the bid. We are not going to change that particular thing here, just try to change that in the future.
What we should be thinking about now is how to maximize the profits for the St Joseph businesses and keep as many of the tourists here as possible by setting up special events and deals. The businesses at Belt & Mitchell and the businesses on Riverside Road are already well placed and I hope they are thinking of something to capitilize on this. Wish I had a bunch of money, I would be trying to buy the empty businesses on those corners of B & M.
Here's a link to the UW site to get the ideas started. Let's leave the past disappointments in the past and make the most of the future.
http://www.uwrf.edu/chiefs/welcome.php

Rabble Rouser,
I do understand how all of the union mess works that is why over 10 years ago I got ride of my union card.Whatever happened to on the job training.I will not tell you what I do for a living but Lets just say I will use a non-union contractor anyday over a union contractor, I have had the trade unions walk off of jobs because of issues between the trades and the company that they work for and it has put my jobs behind and not completed on time, It is not worth the hassle. I have personally seen the lazy member actually pull out a lawn chair at lunch and when lunch was over the other guys were hard at work and he was still in his chair. Unions had a time and a place years and years ago not needed today. And on another note I seam to remember in St Joseph a few years back a young man getting killed because of a gas explosion that was union trade work.As I stated before we all have to work but if the local contractor is going to be awarded these bids for local jobs than the union trades are going to have to work for what the other contractor is paying their help because his bid was a lot less. And this does not mean his work is any less of a quality than our local contractors.I was raised in a union construction trade household all of my life and have done a heck of a lot better without the union in my career.

Today's world is quite different than the early 1900s when Unions were formed and did some great things. The bad news is that too many fundamental aspects of Unions ahve not changed since that early day and consequently they are not doing the job (for their members) they once did.

Saying the auto industry is screwed up is an error...it would be more accurate to suggest the part of the industry that is unionized....is indeed screwed up.

The non-union companies are doing just fine, thankyou. Producing better cars at much,much lower prices. And, the workers are being well taken care of.

Unions generally have very good people....but I have no reservations about suggesting the leadership (above the local level) has dropped the ball.

It's truly sad that Obama fell into the trap....he was "bought and paid for" and he stepped up to the plate and paid them back. That too will come back to haunt him.

"No freakin' wonder unions have a bad reputation. They are takers and nothing more"
As eluded to by Rabble Rouser the building trades unions are not "factory type unions". There is no seniority and no lazy bums sitting in lawn chairs. It couldn't be easier to get rid of a deadbeat just lay them off. These tradesmen go through 4-5 years of training on the job during the day and 3-hours on their own time at night 2-3 nights a week. Do you non-union workers have a federally approved apprenticeship for your highly skilled craftsmen or did you just pick it up on the job? I've met few very skilled non-union workers along the way and some screwballs as well.
I deal with both union and non-union customers on a daily basis and I can tell a huge difference in training and knowledge. Most non-union clients will struggle to explain what they want and more often than not order the job twice to get it right.
I don't buy the perpetual complaining and all the " I'll show you, I'll quit and run you out of business crap"
I've heard that garbage for years out of loud mouths that think they know more than the boss but truth is they are generally substandard employees that try to poison all there fellow employees with their hate spewing.
The truth is like it or not unions have set the wages and benefits you may enjoy as a non-union worker.
I also have seen the quality of non-union work in my particular trade and for the most part it is substandard and sometimes down right shoddy. It may not be the workers fault often times they just haven't received the proper training, that is where the non-union side fails, training.
And yes I will say it again I have seen some very hard working union people through the years.

No one is doubting there are some hardworking union people out there. There are plenty of lazy ones, too. Bottom line, your "building trade" union members are NOT the only skilled laborers in the workforce. The airlines are full of highly skilled, very technical men and women who build, fly and maintain our nation's air fleet. The problem is, even though many of those people are very capable and talented, there are also some very lazy ones...and the unions have bent over backwards to protect them. That's the fault of the unions...and the fault of the company management to wilt when it comes to confrontation. The assertion that the best workers are union is false. The assertion that the best jobs are union is false. The assertion that all union workers are lazy is false. The assertion that all non-union workers are harder working and better qualified is false. My beef isn't with the good, hardworking men and women, both union AND non-union. My beef is with the union hierarchy and the lazy, good-for-nothing union freeloaders they protect.

Here is an interesting comparison between union and non union labor, the auto industry. I will use four companies in my example. On the union side, we have Chrysler and GM. Both have a major reputation for building garbage. The resale values on the union built junk is dismal at best. Now compare the junk that GM and Chrysler build to the quality built by the non union workers at Toyota and Honda in plants here in the good ole USA. The Toyota and Honda cars lead their competition in both quality and resale value. I wonder why if unions have the monopoly on quality why the non union built cars are the best on the road?

You people aren't getting it Contruction trade unions work much differently than the unions you people keep describing.
There is no job security or protection by the union, if someone isn't doing their job they are given their paycheck and shown the door. The union can't force you to hire them back nor do they.

As far as blaming the auto industries woe's and quality on unions guess what "The Fish Rots From The Head" Im not completly absolving the UAW but the management was just as guilty as the UAW. Many of you commenting do not remember the junk that came out of Japan in the 70's but they learned from their mistakes and changed their business model and quality control. Lets hope this US auto re-boot allows the US automakers to do the same.

Now lets get back to the subject at hand as far as Crossland and its sub-contractors do quality work and abide by the rules set according to the NLRB and the Prevailing wage regulations then there is no need for concern. Hopefully some of the local workforce (BOTH UNION AND NON-UNION WILL GET SOME WORK OUT OF THIS PROJECT) and ultimately thats what matters.

If the rank and file of the Unions have a problem it's their failure to rein in their leadership. And, having looked at the inside I can tell you they don't have a clue at some of what is really going on.

The person above described it best when they asked "would the unions be ok if it was a LOCAL non-union contractor?" When union electricians make $30.00 an hour on the check and another plus another $11.00 plus in benefits it's hard for me to feel sorry for them. Plumbers make $32.00 and 15.25 in benefits. That totals $47.25 times 2000 hours a year totals 94500.00. Not bad to show up with no skin in the game.

"I deal with both union and non-union customers on a daily basis and I can tell a huge difference in training and knowledge. Most non-union clients will struggle to explain what they want and more often than not order the job twice to get it right."

"I also have seen the quality of non-union work in my particular trade and for the most part it is substandard and sometimes down right shoddy."

These statements are not true and you know it. For example, electricians go through an apprenticeship whether they work for a union shop or not. You know as well as I do that there are good and bad workers in both union and non-union shops. Stop trying to make people believe that union work is somehow better.

I saw a union electrician get electrocuted and die because he stuck his hands in a live control cabinet. I have seen a union plumber who couldn't sweat lines properly. I have seen union welders who couldn't weld as good as my 10 year old grandson and I have seen a union machine operator get his arm wrapped up in a machine. Union workers are not always "highly trained and skilled" just as non-unions workers are not always. But you should stop trying to convince everyone that union workers are so special, they are certainly no better. Perhaps you are just trying to convince yourself.

He_ Who,

Did I say that union construction workers never make a mistake, or get hurt? No
Do the non-union electricians have a federally recognized apprenticeship program? I don't think so.

Are the customers I deal with less qualified than their union trained counterparts? Yes.
Keep on believing the union craftsmen are lazier, dumber, and less qualified than the non-union workers if it makes you all warm and fuzzy inside.
I'm stating fact, not trying to convince anyone of anything; it doesn't matter to me one way or another. I'm sure there are some well qualified non-union people out there doing construction, I know some of them. As stated earlier the non-union fails in training. Their apprenticeship is merely an excuse to keep someone's pay lower as long as they can, not send them to trade school to learn in depth their trade, not just on the job training.
Are there some real screw-up union people? Yes, I've worked around them I've laid them off, I've watched them slip through the cracks and emerge again as guess what, non-union workers!
As in many things in life you get what you pay for.

Megafrog,
That's a poor comparison. Are you really going to blame the union workers for the vehicles that are being built by GM or Chrysler? Do you think the union workers are the ones that decide what vehicles are going to be built and then do the engineering on these vehicles? No, they are NOT. That's usually the NON-UNION management that makes those decisions and does the engineering. If you want to make a comparison, please come up with a realistic one.

I am not saying that non-union workers are better, but in no way, shape or form, is a union worker better simply because he is part of a union. And you are simply not telling the truth by saying that union workers are better trained. I have electricians working for me who went through the very same classes during their apprenticeship as those working for union shops. My welders are all all certified and have graduated from some of the same schools as union welders. I was once a union welder and was not required to have any formal training whatsoever. So don't try to tell me lies about all of the supposed training union workers get while the "non-union fails in training." It is hogwash!

My Foreman has had to deal with immature union workers while on jobs. Some of these union bafoons act like children, calling my employees names, and not working with them, it's pathetic grade school stuff. But believing you are better than everyone else has always been the typical union mentality.

Just belonging to a union don't make you better, well, paid better I guess. But there is an excellent chance that you have been trained for 4-5 years on the job as well as classroom training at night before you are classified as a journeyman. Classified in the eyes of the US Department of Labor that is, not classified by "the boys at the shop", or your foreman. Every union shop has these standards in place, not some or a few, every one. It sounds like you have well qualified people that receive proper training but by and large that is not the case on the non-union side.
Immaturity at the rank and file level on jobsites has given unions a black eye for years, it's not the non-union workers fault, they are trying to make a living like everyone. These bozos should try to entice the better workers to the union side if they want to help their cause or show them a pay stub to see how they should be paid for their trade, or perhaps ask them what kind of retirement plan they have.
I didn't know there was welder union. In my experience apprentices are trained to weld specifically for their craft(millwrights,boilermakers, etc).
Unless your training program is recognized at the federal level then the hogwash is on you.

I've never figured out why Union members have the "attitude". The idea that they are "better". The idea that they are "entitled".

That they have the right to stop others from working, from doing things another way.

I have no problem respecting their principles and ideals and respect their right to do business as they choose. It's just their attitude....that their way is the only way is a little hard to choke down.

So, union_man,
It's the fault of the non-union engineers and managers that bolts are left loose in some cars....parts aren't properly attached, and didn't you see the expose' about things like airbags that were missing, and instead, the cavities were filled with papertowels, etc? There's shoddy work done on some of these cars. How, pray tell, does that fall on the shoulders of the engineer or the manager? Personally, I KNOW some autoworkers for both Ford AND GM, and they both tell me the same story...people not doing their jobs, and the consumer is the one that bites the bullet.
From my experience, the unions today only protect the lazy workers. The good workers have to shoulder a heavier burden, and do more, to cover for those who won't.