"The sky is falling....the sky is falling....the sky is falling!!"
Really, Mr. Harlow...I find your letter interesting fiction, but trust me..."1984" has already been written.

If one reads the truth behind the NAIS, one can see that it's not nearly as restrictive as Mr. Harlow insists. Buddy can still take Ol' Paint out for a daily run, and Fido can still roam the family farm. Oh, and get this.... the chicken can still cross the road!!

pops

Maybe you had better take your own advice and reread the truth behind NAIS. Obviously you did not understand what you read, or think NAIS is the greatest thing since sliced bread, will magically protect all our animals from any disease thrown at us while we continue to allow importation from countries known to have major disease problems, our foods will magically become safer, although we keep finding over and over that the problem is again with tainted imports or contamination at the big plants (which by the way, NAIS will have no affect on and stops dead at their doors....Hmmmm......), and the factory farms (where most animal welfare problems are being found) will not have the same, restrictive and devistating rules to follow as the small farms, who you seem so comfortable mocking.

You are entitled to your opinion, but please take a few minutes to at least get your facts straight before commenting. You sound like one of Vilsack's flunkies, and we've all been finding out how knowledgeable they have been with their own program. They don't even know what half of their write ups say!

Ironic that the Government waste so much time, money and ink on this while ignoring the 5 million illegals in this country.They want to know where your freakin cow is, but don't care if 1,500 illegals a day stroll into this country? And chances are good they are the ones cutting up your cow that has been carefully tracked. Thank god the cow was verified to be a resident, now...someone tell that guy that nobody knows where he came from cutting it up in Spanish to wash his hands.

rk...............where do you get FIVE million. The absolute lowest anyone else has quoted is 12 million and often 20 million is cited. And what's disgusting even Fox news says we have 46 million without healthcare...and they fail to note that over 10 million of that number are illegal

By the way when ACORN gets donw with the Census there probably won't be any illegals so we won't' have anything to worry about.

I DID read it, kimp...only I didn't read the reactionary websites that I think you and Mr. Harlow are frequenting. It's pretty clear, if you read the proposal itself, that what they're proposing isn't anywhere nearly as restrictive as you want us to think.

As for the other comments, I agree...it's fascinating they're proposing such things as RFID chips, etc, to locate animals, and doing nothing to locate illegal invaders in our nation!! Ironic, isn't it!!

Oh....why did the chicken cross the road???? To escape kimp's and Mr. Harlow's falling sky fragments!!

pops,
The only part of Mr Harlow's letter that I see as incorrect is that trail riding and changing pastures will require a movement report. Unless of course, you happen to "commingle" with livestock from another premises during your ride or upon changing pastures. Then a report will be required. Of course, there is absolutely no way for that to be enforced if both parties agree not to mention it.
However, attending fairs and rodeos will require reports to be filed within 24 hours of the "event". I wonder how that is supposed to work if an event lasts several days and there is no computer access. (USDA assumes everyone has a computer with an internet connection at their disposal.) That's one of the details that hasn't been given much thought.
I don't know what you consider to be restrictive, but I have a major problem with a government program that requires me as an honest citizen to report the location of my healthy horses for their entire lives. Horses can live up to 30+ years you know. There is no purpose in requiring that type of information to be reported to any government that isn't trying to control EVERYTHING under the guise of "keeping us safe". Try reading the Bill of Rights and tell me that the founding fathers would have been OK with this.

What I don't understand is that this is a "VOLUNTARY" program!! It's not mandated!! If you don't want to participate....you don't HAVE to!!

Sheesh!!

pops,
USDA uses the same definition of voluntary that the Mafia uses. You don't have to do it - unless you want to stay in business. That's been the situation for the last few years.
What we are looking at now is a push from Congresswoman DeLauro to have USDA mandate it. She's realized that it will never work as a voluntary program, so she withdrew funding from it until Vilsack finds a way to make it work. That means a mandate if he wants his funding back.

But it's not mandatory NOW. That means you CAN fight it. That means all this hoopla is just that....hoopla!! Write your congressman and senator. Let them know how you feel. Start a grassroots opposition. Too much of the time, people gripe and gripe about what's "thrust" upon them, but do nothing to stand against what they oppose.

pops,
What do you think we've been doing? We ARE fighting it! We've all contacted or visited our legislators (I've been to DC twice now), these letters are part of the grassroots opposition, there are several websites that are helping with organizing this and spreading information so we know what we are up against. We've made comments to the Federal Register and attended the Listening Sessions. How do you think some of the other respondents to this message found out about it? I live in PA. I heard about the St Joe News from the Americans Against NAIS website (which is monitored by USDA).

What do I THINK you're doing?? Until now....I didn't have a CLUE what you were doing!! Thanks for the info. Glad to hear you're following those steps to make change. I STILL say it's much ado about nothing, but, hey...I don't have horses or cows, since I live in town. Personally, I'd LOVE to have such a program with my pets, since when a dog DOES get loose, it'd make it SO much easier to find him!

pops,
If the government ran a program to tag and track your pets, it wouldn't be to help you find a lost dog. (Which still has to be found before it can be identified.)
If dogs were part of NAIS, you would register your property into a database with your contact info. This would mean that a government agent would be able to enter your home anytime they want without permission or a warrant to check your veterinary records, and confiscate or destroy your dog if they think its been exposed to a disease of concern. This registration number will stay with your property even when it is sold - so you would have to tell the buyer that he isn't protected by the 4th Amendment either.
Next, you would be required, at your expense, to chip your dog even if you are concerned about possible health problems or you don't have enough extra money to pay the vet. When your dog dies or is sold, you would need to file a report within 24 hrs to let the database know where the dog is. You would also need to file a report if you take your dog for a walk, or to the vet and he meets another dog. And, when your dog is lost, you will file that report also. Of course, there will be a charge for filing the report since someone will be paid to key in the information. Now, if your dog is found, someone will need a wand to read the chip. Since wands are expensive, a good samaritan would have to take your dog to a vet or a shelter to identify it. That is, if the wand is the same frequency as the chip, and it hasn't migrated to another part of the dog's body.
Now, if all that is OK with you, you need to project what might happen in the future if the gov't has this information. First, it could be used to tax you for the privilege of owning a dog. If you have two dogs, double the tax. If you breed a dog, you'll be charged extra fees for making puppies. It could be used as an enforcement tool if someone who doesn't like you reports that you mistreated your dog. An animal rights activist might be able to access your info and use it against you - esp. if you own a breed of dog they think needs to be banned or controlled with extraordinary means.
Gov't has been very good lately at finding new ways to raise funds. This type of database would be a useful tool to them, and there is no limit to their imaginations or size of the fees, or punishments.
Be careful what you ask for. You may get it.

Sometimes, you conspiracy theorists are more than a little entertaining.
Sorry....this whole thing is overblown, mostly by those of you who see "Big Brother" around every corner.

This isn't a conspiracy theory. I just described to you how NAIS is intended to function from USDA's own information.
Don't believe me? Read this.

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/naislibrary/documents/plans_reports/TraceabilityBusinessPlan%20Ver%201.0%20Sept%202008.pdf

Be sure to read between the lines. For example, from p.3
"Voluntary participation
NAIS provides the opportunity for producers that are not part of a disease program to freely participate in national animal health safeguarding efforts.

You'll notice that participation is only voluntary if you aren't already part of a disease program. The majority of livestock in this country do participate in disease control programs. Those that don't, are the ones that USDA can't find.

Oh my gosh! This is way too funny-- to think that there are those who actually believe this bull (pun intended). You are right, pops, the conspiracy theorists are giving us our dollar's worth today.

gypsyrose- did you even read the link you posted? Do you know what it means to be part of a disease program? Have you ever been on a hog farm that is part of one? Have you visited a poultry producer who is part of a disease program? Showered in? Changed your clothes? Changed your boots? Those who are part of a disease prevention program welcome the participation. Many of these producers spend BIG money to keep their herds disease-free. Those producers who are part of a disease program originally VOLUNTEERED-- the USDA did NOT force them to take part.

What you are suggesting that the government is doing is ridiculous... financially and logistically. The government has no desire to keep track of every animal in the US-- it doesn't take much thought or common sense to realize that. The USDA has repeatedly said this... in many different ways and through different avenues.

Mr Harlow-- I think you are so far off base that you won't ever be able to figure out what is true and what is false when it comes to this issue....

Here is a link that may give you a little bit of a clue of what the program is trying to accomplish... and it isn't to get you to spend more money!!

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/faq/index.shtml

Be sure to read down to the part where it refers to myths...

JLS,
I've read every document put out by USDA including the Business Plan and the full Cost Benefit Analysis. I own horses, and Coggins testing is the disease control program USDA is targeting for them.
The producers you refer to who volunteered are the same ones who proposed this system. NAIS benefits vertically integrated industries that deal internationally.
If the government isn't interested in tracking every animal in the country, why are there no exclusions for small farms,homesteads,and backyard pets? What about the Amish who are opposed to this due to their beliefs? Why did John Weimers tell Sharon Zecchinelli in 2006 "that he would drive every back road to find every backyard flock and tag each chicken."?
The government isn't concerned about the financial and regulatory burden on small farms who will have a higher cost per animal in exchange for little or no benefit. The Cost Benefit Analysis was focused on benefits to industry while dismissing individual livestock owners as too insignificant to include in the study.
Well, as one of those insignificant "stakeholders", I want no part of your plan, and as long as USDA attempts to impose it on me, I will fight back.
And, I've seen USDA's "myths" and they ignore the real questions being asked. For that matter, I could give you a list of myths that USDA is spreading.

But there are exclusions for small farms, homesteads and backyard pets... the program is VOLUNTARY! No one is mandated to follow the program. There is no plan to ever make it anything but VOLUNTARY!

Have you ever been to a large livestock show? Do you realize that the owners are already obligated to provide immunization records, veterinary checks, negative blood tests for certain diseases, etc? This is nothing new. Do you remember in the 70s when poultry couldn't be shown or transported due to Newcastle disease? Do you think that this VOLUNTARY program may be a result of situations similar to that? What if there was a brucellosis outbreak in your area? Wouldn't you be interested in knowing so you could protect your swine herd?

Concerning the quote by Dr Weimers... do you think maybe it could have been taken out of context? http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content.asp?ContentId=194952

Do you realize that livestock producers already mark their livestock for identification? Go to any cattle producer and you will find that his/her cattle are tagged. Every hog owned by a swine producer is either notched or tagged. What you are fighting against are already precautions that many producers currently take.

Coggins testing has been required for YEARS in some states if you want to haul your horses. You can't haul your horse across some state lines without a negative Coggins test. So your horse has to have a blood test-- is it really that big of a deal to protect the health of your horse or someone else's? Most decent stables require negative Coggins tests before they will board your horse... and if they don't, you should probably be looking for some place else to board!

By the way, those of us who have families that produce livestock on a large scale look at members of AAN the same way they look at members of PETA...

Sorry, JLS, I must agree with gypserose because I have read the USDA documents and I have spent 4 years on this issue. There is no exemption for small farms or backyard pets. If your definition of "voluntary" is with the consent of the owner then it is not voluntary. I have a USDA-VS memo that instructs the vets to enter the informations into the NAIS system. Now what are we suppose to do, not take our animals to the vet?

OK- show me. Show me where backyard pets-- cats, dogs, other pets, etc are going to be REQUIRED to be identified with NAIS. Show me where it is MANDATORY for animals to be identified. Show me where it states there are no exemptions.

Vets are not required to enter information about every animal... show me where you think it says that. Vets will assist the producer in identifying their animals... at the producer's request. Surely you know this if you have read all the USDA documents and have spent 4 years on this issue.

I have one more question--- do you live on a farm? Do you raise livestock? Are you in a rural area? I find it really hard to believe that any farmer or livestock producer in rural KS, MO, IA or NE would fall for the propaganda of the AAN. Most are more concerned about the health of their herd than listening to some conspiracy theorists who, like pops said, claim the sky is falling.

Just remember-- no matter what you think--- this whole program is VOLUNTARY! No one is being forced to participate. If you know of one single livestock producer who is being forced to participate in the NAIS, let us know...

The USDA-VS memo is VS 575.19 dated 9-22-08. If they tell you that memo was withdrawn, it is true. Then they issued it again 10-22-08 with same memo number VS 575.19. Now you can file an FOIA and get your own personal property.

Backyard pets (does not include dogs & pets).

And yes, in fact I have the paperwork on my desk where a lady was signed up without her knowledge. It took 6 months and they cannot remove her from the NAIS system but can only classify her as "inactive."

Google what is going on in Nebraska, as we speak. 840 NAIS numbers are being mandated in the TB program. There is no way that you can have a number without being entered into NAIS. USDA cannot do this without congressional approval and there has not been a final rule regarding changing the national numbering system and one state can not change the regulations for the other 49 states.

"If you know of one single livestock producer who is being forced to participate in the NAIS, let us know..."

You might want to look at this lawsuit against USDA and the Michigan Dep't of Agriculture on behalf of several farmers who were forced to register.
http://www.ftcldf.org/news/news-11sep2008.htm

And at this article detailing how Wisconsin is suing an Amishman for not complying with Premise ID.
http://newsofthenorth.net/printFriendly.cfm?articleID=24404

Now, I never said that dogs and cats are included in NAIS. However, ponies, miniature horses, pot bellied pigs, goats, chickens and ducks, etc can all be kept as backyard pets, and are all included in the 33 species that NAIS calls livestock.

NAIS is not mandatory NOW. The original draft plan wanted it that way by Jan 2009, but the opposition to it forced USDA to back off and say it would be voluntary. My definition of voluntary doesn't includes coercion like requiring a premise ID for children to show livestock at the CO State Fair, or requiring a premise ID to be eligible for drought relief in NC. There are more examples, but those two stick out in my tired mind right now.

VS Memorandum 575.19 dated Sept.22, 2008 required veterinarians to register their clients who refused to "volunteer".
http://www.libertyark.net/APHIS-PIN-Mandate-080922.pdf
That memo was rescinded after a storm of protest.

And yes, I live on a horse farm in PA. You may not consider it to be a real farm, but the USDA does.
My horses get proper veterinary care and I pull Coggins tests as needed, and require them from new boarders. If USDA ties Premise ID numbers to Coggins testing, they will force me to choose between taking proper precautions against disease, and my Fourth Amendment rights. I shouldn't have to do that in this country.

FYI, the members of AAN have nothing in common with PETA and HSUS. We are fighting to retain our civil rights, not animal rights.

Ok-- my point has been made about conspiracy theorists... when you quote a letter to the editor as an "article" and give it credibility, you lose all credibility... You even stated "WISCONSIN IS SUING..." Wisconsin is a state, NOT the NAIS. Even the NAIS states that states will have their own regulations.

VS memo 575.19 referred to disease outbreaks... AFTER disease is found. It was rescinded, as you noted, so why is it an issue? Do you realize that pseudo-rabies can affect every hog on a farm and neighboring farms? Do you know that other animals can get it? Wouldn't you like to know if your animals have the possibility of being infected?

Is your horse farm your livelihood? If disease were to hit your animals and they were all destroyed, would your family still survive financially? Would you be able to feed your family if all your horses had to be destroyed because of disease?

We require our children to be vaccinated. If a communicable disease hits our schools, we are notified. If one of our children become infected with a communicable disease, they become part of a statistic. You are more worried about your animals becoming part of a statistic than you are your own children? Heck, they even keep track of your child's SSN when they are vaccinated but you are more worried about an address being VOLUNTARILY registered?

Fourth Amendment rights? Do you know what they are?
You are being forced between choosing to take proper precautions against disease and your Fourth Amendment rights? Are we talking ILLEGAL search and seizure here? Are we talking UNREASONABLE search and seizure here? Once again, the conspiracy theorists are out in full force.

You may state that members of the AAN have nothing in common with PETA but that doesn't stop many livestock producers from looking at them the same way they do PETA. There are many more organizations with much more credibility that have done plenty for the family farmer and livestock producer than the AAN will ever do... including the Farm Bureau and just about every national livestock organization.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

JLS, I believe that you are being deliberately obtuse. In the time it has taken you to reply, you could not have possibly read the documents that the USDA has produced.
The reason we talk about Wisconsin is because, under blackmail from the USDA, (think taxpayer money) they have made the first two requirements of the NAIS mandatory. Therefore, the suit is the State of Wisconsin Dept of Agriculture against the farmer that refuses to comply.
I own horses, chickens, geese and guineas, I am not about to try to catch a flock of wild guineas to tag them and I am not about to report to the USDA every time a chicken dies of old age or is eaten by a raccoon. My life is still my own and I will defend my Constitutional Rights with every breath in my body.
In case you had not noticed it, the government in D.C. is working tirelessly to turn this country into another France, England or USSR. If we do not stop all attempts at removing our rights, they will slowly but surely erode them away until we are no better than slaves.
I don't want that to happen to this country, I don't know about you, but think about it.

JLS, Show me how NAIS will prevent disease any faster than our current disease traceability. Why change the numbering codes to where you cannot determine which state they are from? If you feel that a tag will protect your herd then if I were you, I would tag them. I don't!
I'm more concerned with NAIS possibly closing the open market. I have had it with meatpackers manipulating the market with no Stockyard Act enforcement. I'm tired of the unsafe trade agreements that bring the disease into our country and the lack of inspections & testing.
Do you not see a problem in priorities here?
And yes, I own a purebred herd.

I don't have to read the ALL documents to form my opinion. I am from farm country. I live on a farm. I have family members who produce and raise MUCH more livestock than you do. I tend to gather facts, instead of relying on reactionary websites or letters to the editor from 'dingbats' to gain information on issues. This issue has been discussed many more times before it was ever brought to light on SJNP.

As I stated before... PLEASE show me. Show me where backyard pets-- cats, dogs, OTHER PETS, etc are going to be REQUIRED to be identified with NAIS. Show me where it is MANDATORY for animals to be identified. Show me where it states there are no exemptions. Show me where you are going to be required to catch a flock of wild guineas to tag them. Show me where you are going to be required to notify the USDA every time a chicken dies.

No matter what you think, I will rather form my opinion based on information from organizations such as Farm Bureau, the National Cattleman's Assn, etc. and others who DO have livestock producers concerns in mind. These organizations are truly concerned with issues that do pertain to those who make their living from producing livestock.

It seems like most of opposition in these comments are from backyard breeders... those whose livelihood is NOT based on raising and producing livestock.

I am very concerned about my rights--- but I really don't think this is an issue where my rights or the rights of livestock producers are being violated. If I felt that way, I would also feel that my rights and my children's rights are being violated because schools keep track of immunizations or childhood diseases. Do you realize that children cannot be enrolled in school without proper immunization records or health records! Oh my! Look at all the rights that are being violated!

Truly, I think you are barking up the wrong tree and your passion could probably be better used against issues that actually do affect your rights...

Exzaktamente,
Thank you. Obtuse is exactly the word I was looking for.

JLS,
If you don't like letters to the editor, perhaps a view of the actual complaint will convince you of the validity of my statement.
http://members.ftcldf.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/miller-emanuel-jr-wi-complaint-for-civil-forfeiture-100308.pdf

As Exzaktamente pointed out, the State of Wisconsin has made this law because they have taken money from USDA to enact NAIS. Surely, you don't think that Wisconsin, and 49 other states and 12 tribes, miraculously came up with the idea to create a NAIS system independently of each other at the same time. Wisconsin just happens to be one of the first to mandate it because their legislators didn't realize that DATCP wouldn't grant exemptions to the Amish.

VS Memo 575.19 did not refer to disease outbreaks after a disease is found. Did you read it? It referred to issuing PINs to any farm that had a veterinarian present for any activity concerning a CFR listed disease. That included vaccinations, testing and inspections.
The only reason it was rescinded was because NAIS opponents recognized it as an underhanded way to mandate NAIS and called them on it. It is for actions like that, that USDA has lost the trust of small farmers across the country.

It makes no difference if my horses are my livelihood or not. NAIS does not make that distinction. But either way, my horses are better off without NAIS which will only give a false sense of security while permitting horses from countries with FADs to enter the US without adequate quarantine and inspection. I hope you realize that NAIS is designed to open up our borders even wider.

You don't seem to comprehend the difference between disease control and NAIS. NAIS is a disease tracking plan - not a disease control plan. In a FOIA request from October 2008, Dr Adam Grow, DVM - Director of Surveillance and Identification Programs - USDA,APHIS,Veterinary Services, stated that NAIS is not a disease control or eradication program.
http://nonais.org/2008/10/31/depopulation-foia-response/

I most certainly do know what the Fourth Amendment says, and having a PIN removes that right because it would make it legal to enter my private property without permission or a warrant for any reason that USDA or the state ag dep't could create. I've personally asked that question of my state coordinator and the USDA coordinator. I never got a straight answer.

If you think people protecting their own civil rights is the same thing as trying to award rights to animals, you need a civics lesson. I can't help it if you don't understand the Bill of Rights.

And as for those organizations that you feel have more credibility, every last one of them has taken bribe money from USDA to implement NAIS. They all have a conflict of interest. From the sound of your arguments, I would guess that you do too.

JLS,
I guess you didn't read one of my previous responses to your question. Backyard pets do not include dogs and cats - those are household pets. Backyard pets are those livestock animals that people treat as pets - such as miniature horses/donkeys, goats, pot bellied pigs, etc. Please don't make me repeat this again.

It's interesting that you have formed such strong opinions about a topic when you haven't read the documents yourself. You have put your trust in Farm Bureau and your livestock associations. All those organizations have received funding from USDA to implement NAIS and therefore have a conflict of interest. If you are really interested, I'll see if I can find a link to the list of who got what.

If it bothers you that people whose livelihoods don't depend on market access for their livestock are opposing this, then maybe you should ask yourself, why are we included in this plan, and why should we participate? If I created a plan for selling more horses, would you mind helping to pay for it even though there is nothing in it for you except being a "good neighbor"? (That's one of the reasons that horse owners have been given to participate in NAIS.)

BTW, are you aware that every non biased poll shows 90%+ of livestock owners are opposed to NAIS? Are we ALL conspiracy theorists?

You can all spout whatever you like....it's STILL a conspiracy theory...plain and simple. You ask us to "read between the lines". I prefer just reading. You say that "backyard pets" doesn't include dogs and pets. What DOES it include?
I refuse to believe the government would be so worried about documenting your cows, horses, pigs and chickens, not to mention my dogs and cats, and not worry about the countless rabbits, squirrels, birds, chipmunks, etc, etc, etc. that make up the wild animals in our country. They, by far, outnumber the domesticated animals you're worried about!! Unbelieveable!!
Could I interest any of you in this bridge I happen to have for sale????

conspiracy theory 
1. a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.
2. the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

The first definition does not apply because USDA is not a covert group.
The second definition does not apply because we can document the reasons for NAIS. It isn't a secret.

pops, I suggest if anyone ever asks you to sign a contract, that you have someone else look it over for you. Have you never heard of a loophole? Do you believe everything you are told by our gov't?

I've stated twice already what animals are backyard pets. I suggest you go back and re-read.

Government is more concerned about documenting our livestock than the wild animals because there is no way to extract money from, or control a wild animal's behavior.

Do me a favor, pops. I've listed all types of documentation for my arguments. What is your information source?
Remember, it was Ronald Reagan who said,
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

JLS wrote:
"I don't have to read the ALL documents to form my opinion."

There you have it, ignorance gone to seed, and proud of it. There is no communicating with a person that willfully does not want to read the official documents or base their opinion on evidence. There's nothing worse than a Farm Bureau bobble head that blindly will trust an organization that sat down at the table with the multinationals, long before anyone ever heard of 'mad cow' and conspired to start NAIS. http://www.animalagriculture.org/Proceedings/1994%20NLIS/summary%20and%20future%20action.htm

For a good example of what happens to a Farm Bureau person when they do read the documents for themselves could be found in what happened to Bob Parker. He WAS in leadership in FB. Bob Parker certainly had first hand experience with coming against the Farm Bureau leadership in his state over NAIS when he read the documents: http://henwhisperer.blogspot.com/2008/01/missouri-farm-bureau-and-sb-931.html

The very trusting and naive people, in Farm Bureau, have no clue that they've been betrayed by the AFBF. They probably won’t realize they've been stabbed in the back until they're out of business, moved to the city, and the only drop of food available in this country is poisoned stuff from out of the country.

Give it up, Exzaktamente, MRD, and Gypsyrose. There's no point in trying to communicate with someone that refuses to read the documents for themselves. It's difficult to convince someone of wrong when they see a financial benefit to what they promote. They don't have a bit of problem stealing the Constitutional or property rights of another. The irony of it is when you condone the theft of another person's property and rights you're taking the rights away from yourself, as well. Foolishly, they apparently don't read the papers much or read documents to know that this is all about outsourcing everything produced or made in this country. Hmmm, wonder how they'll feel when they start working for JBS. Oh, that's right, JBS is based out of Brazil. Wonder if they'll hire Brazilians or Americans put out of business and off their ranches? http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20080306/NEWS/70444986 NAIS is not about exports, out of the country, but all about monopolizing and importing every drop of food from other countries.

As for me, I own livestock and will die, go to prison, or loose my property, before I comply with this government's tyrannical agenda of NAIS. Neither, will I get rid of my livestock. This unConstitutional pogrom of NAIS is a direct attack against property rights and our freedom in this country. For all you Farm Bureau people, along with those promoting this program, the loss of life and property, is going to be on your hands just like it was for those in Germany that assisted and promoted genocide and murder.

I went to the USDA website, and their information about NAIS, and I don't see ANYTHING in that that would suggest the dire situation some of you indicate. Of course, I'm not "reading between the lines" either. I just read it.

Don't insult my intelligence by suggesting I'm ignorant. I just don't see the boogey man around every corner, waiting to take my birthday away....

pops,
You just aren't worth the effort any more. An ignorant person can learn, but since you can't, I won't suggest that you are.

The Business plan when READ pretty much states that you will not be able to buy, sell which includes change of ownership with out a premises id should this program be mandatory.

For those that state this program is Voluntary then how come New York equine owners were assigned premises id when they tested for coggins.

For those that state this program is Voluntary then how come children in 4-H were used to sign up there parents property.

I take being called a conspiracy nut as as a compliment, I have been involved with NAIS for 5 yrs and have read every single article all USDA documents including the states coop agreements. I have read the USDA MEMO that they put out in Sept 2008 making your personal vet the person assigning you a premises id, by using the reportable disease list and other services.

Many on this forum adamantly deny that there will be no movement reporting, In two of the documents it clearly spells out the animal event codes.

NAIS is not just for big ag, it includes 33 species, equines pigs, camelids, buffalo, poultry etc. All species must be identified. At this point in time the poultry species working have not submitted a paper. Horses will be identified and if you "commingle" your animals you will be required to report movement. Are you telling us that when you go to a show or trail ride you do not commingle? If you go to the vet the vet will record your movement. Its part of the USDA documents.

Reporting your animals movements will cost the owner, the database will not be free. The scanners will cost the owners. How will others report if they have no internet, no computer? How will traceability be achieved with out the above?

In the southern states they have a program called the equine passport. In order to sign up to this so called NAIS program you must have a premises id. Your horses will be identified and if they use a chip it must be the 11784/11785 and if you travel with your horse and are stopped by a person of authority and they ask if your horses have chips you are REQUIRED to have a scanner.

When an equine owners tests for EIA which is a reportable disease, the blood is sent to a USDA certified lab. The lab processes and once the test comes back NEG or POS it is reported back to the STATE VET with in 24 hours. So you see they already have traceability. As with cattle when you test for TB, the vet administers, comes back for a reading and if its pos/neg, the St Vet is notified.

Page 22 of the USDA New User guides states the premises id will stay with the land forever.. including if you sell it to another person who never raises livestock. Now the ID will go away if its paved over.

Read the GD documents POPS not just the phony USDA web site they have in pretending they are protecting the USA of disease and food safety. If they truly wanted to protect the citizens of the USA big ag would no longer have recalls.

We the opponents of NAIS have done our home work.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Pops- Better watch out because these people are just positive that the sky is falling. Not one appears to be an actual livestock producer. Raising a couple of horses to ride on weekends is NOT a livestock producer... at least not in the heartland where livestock is the mainstay of many families!

Some of the reasons given for being against NAIS and tagging livestock is absolutely preposterous. One of the websites given as a reference above has letters from those who are against WISCONSIN's rules and regulations... and after randomly reading FIVE different ones and each of those five claim the reason they are against it is because the tags are the "MARK OF THE BEAST," I gave up. I would rather deal with actual facts-- something that most of you seem to ignore.

FACT- NAIS is VOLUNTARY.
FACT- States may have their own rules, regulations and laws.
FACT- NAIS is VOLUNTARY.
FACT- if the USDA were forcing a state to pass laws such as Wisconsin, they would be forcing ALL states.
FACT- NAIS is VOLUNTARY.
FACT- Most of the posters on here against NAIS have not based their posts on facts concerning the NAIS.
FACT- NAIS is VOLUNTARY.
FACT- Disease traceability is much more stringent and all-encompassing for people than animals, yet extremists are more concerned about their animals.
FACT- NAIS is VOLUNTARY.

I have said this more than once... "PLEASE show me. Show me where backyard pets--(I am removing dogs and cats), OTHER PETS, etc are going to be REQUIRED to be identified with NAIS. Show me where it is MANDATORY for animals to be identified. Show me where it states there are no exemptions. Show me where you are going to be required to catch a flock of wild guineas to tag them. Show me where you are going to be required to notify the USDA every time a chicken dies."

Many keep throwing out statements, yet refuse to back them with facts.

By the way, the Farm Bureau has done MUCH MUCH more for the livestock producer than you give them credit for.

Intersting depth of interest in stock........

I still think it's a great idea to tag and track "illegals".

then we could back our observations with "facts".

lbc-- how true! These extremists are worried more about a horse than a person! I wonder if illegals bring disease into the US... Hey-- that has already been answered--(ask people in TX)

NAIS was drafted as a mandatory program in 2004. Due to resistance, USDA drafted a "voluntary" plan and funded each state, tribe and some organizations to achieve full participation.
After spending $134 million and only about 35% participation, USDA is conducting listening sessions to determine whether to make NAIS mandatory.
Next session:
<http://www.theindependent.com/articles/2009/06/29/news/ag/10166013.txt>

First phase: NAIS is "premises id registration"
Second phase: Animals to be "tagged"
Third phase: Animal movement reporting & tracking

The species are listed in USDA NAIS Standards & Techniques References, Page 6. You will find all the data codes for birth, death, sell, purchase...etc and movements to report.

pops asked about wildlife. Deer, elk, quail and some fish are listed but USDA is talking about food consumption animals. pops would have to ask USDA why all animals are not listed. I don't know.

I own a purebred herd of cattle and a flock of chickens. Of course, the chickens are for our personal use because Tysons sewed up the market on poultry and unless you can sell them off your front porch...there is no place to take them to market. Same is true for hogs in my state. Tysons have control of the market and hogs are being black-marketed. I do NOT want that to happen to the cattle!!!

Farm Bureau lied to me and testified against keeping it voluntary in my state and so did Cattlemen's. I dropped 7 insurance polices and my husband resigned from the Farm Bureau board. Watch their language carefully. They say, "We can support a voluntary NAIS because it is in line with our policy." However, they do not want to commit to voluntary in the event that NAIS becomes mandatory.

Check out R-CALF, they are not horse or backyard people.
http://www.r-calfusa.com/news_releases/2009/090501-group.htm

Actually, I am far more concerned with the Constitutionality of this program than I am with the expense.
The Federal Government and it's bureaucracies have far exceeded the authority given to them under our Constitution and every freedom lost is one that will likely never be regained.
If any of you can show me where in the Constitution the Federal Government even had the authority to create the USDA, I would be much obliged,(oh, and please don't quote that overused "General Welfare" sentence as your proof).
That sentence has been used to "authorize" every program takeover from education to healthcare.

pops,

You said you'd like to have such a program with your pets? Then, what is stopping you from tagging or chipping them if you haven't already? There is no law against it!

I've had it with people like you who think you know it all, but obviously have not read a word. You MUST work for congress.

JLS,
I hate to say anything derogatory, but since you insist on referring to anti-NAIS people as extremists, why are the pro-NAIS people so dense? We've given you links to government documents and told you where to look for info. You have to read them for yourself, we can't do that for you. You like to bash livestock owners who aren't big businesses. NAIS does not discriminate between hobby farms and CAFOs, and as long as they include hobby farms, small businesses, and PET goat owners, we have every right to protest being included in a plan designed for big business.
If NAIS were truly VOLUNTARY, thre would be no argument going on here, but USDA representatives at meetings I've attended, have made it quite clear that they expect horse owners to line up and sign on, or be forced into the program by new regulations concerning the sale or movement of a horse. This is in the Business Plan if you bother to look at it. We don't eat horses in this country and most import/export horses are done on an individual level,not by big business. Why are they so concerned about them? Someone, somewhere is going to make a profit off of this and it won't be the average horse owner.

Now, as far as this same old nonsense you've been spouting:

FACT- States may have their own rules, regulations and laws.
FACT- if the USDA were forcing a state to pass laws such as Wisconsin, they would be forcing ALL states.

USDA is not forcing states to pass laws. They are bribing states to pass them with cooperative agreement money, and a majority of legislators have no clue about any of this, so they get their info from groups like Farm Bureau who have also been bribed to promote it. I'm tired of telling you where to look for this info. Why don't you just use a search engine and find it yourself? It's out there.

FACT- Most of the posters on here against NAIS have not based their posts on facts concerning the NAIS.

Since you haven't read any of the documents, how do you know what the facts are? It is always smarter to do your own research than to trust someone else to tell you what you should know. If you haven't learned that yet, you will one day.

FACT- Disease traceability is much more stringent and all-encompassing for people than animals, yet extremists are more concerned about their animals.

This statement doesn't even make any sense. I'm not even going to try to guess what you are suggesting.

gypsyrose- What makes you think I haven't read any of the documents? Because I don't believe your interpretation? Because I don't 'read between the lines?' Maybe that is the problem--- you are reading between the lines, instead of sticking to facts. To me, you are so far off the playing field that your posts lack any credibility....

So the USDA isn't forcing WI but they are bribing them??? And what is the difference? You keep talking in circles, wanting everyone to be against the NAIS because you are, yet you fail to prove logically why we should be against them. Is it because Amish feel that identifying their livestock is putting the "Mark of the Beast" on them? Personally, I don't feel this is a logical reason.

You have no problem cutting other post-ers down, yet you definitely do not know how to handle criticism of your posts. Not once have you shown me anything that would make me want to change my opinion. You have not stated one fact that makes me feel that your opinion is better than mine... yet you refer to me as being dense because I refuse to change my opinion based on some extreme (meaning NOT mainstream) views.

It is probably time that you learn from your own comments...."It is always smarter to do your own research than to trust someone else to tell you what you should know. If you haven't learned that yet, you will one day."

This is why I think you haven't read the documents:

"I don't have to read the ALL documents to form my opinion."
and,
"No matter what you think, I will rather form my opinion based on information from organizations such as Farm Bureau, the National Cattleman's Assn,"

Which USDA documents have you read? I've read all of them that pertain to NAIS.
And, you are forming your opinion based on information from organizations that have accepted millions of dollars from USDA? That means they have a conflict of interest. Of course, they are going to sell NAIS as a great idea. That's what they are being paid to do. A smart person looks for an independent source for information. You don't have to believe me personally, but over 90% of respondents to unbiased polls and persons attending the listening sessions are opposed to NAIS. The only proponents of NAIS at the sessions have been members of industry groups receiving funds for promoting it, which makes your defense and nasty attitude to those who are trying to give you information
very suspect. It also puts you in the minority, not the mainstream. You need to look outside your box.

Perhaps saying "read between the lines" was too difficult for you to understand. Let me rephrase. Read exactly what is written and don't assume it means anything other than what it says. An example of this was when Mike Johanns stated, "NAIS will not be mandatory under my tenure. I repeat will not!" He then quit two months later. I'm sure you've also heard that NAIS is voluntary on the FEDERAL level. That's another way of saying it will be made mandatory on the state level.

I guess I'll have to give you an explanation of force and bribery, since you can't differentiate between the two concepts. Forcing you to do something means against your will. Bribing you to do the same thing means you become a willing partner for the right price. Understand now?

Are you the arbiter of what constitutes a violation of the First Amendment? Who are you to say that the Amish and similar groups don't have a valid concern about the violation of their religious beliefs? I've personally heard several of them say that they are very upset about NAIS and what it will do to them. Anyone telling you anything different is lying.

I referred to you as dense because you referred to me as an extremist for defending my civil rights. Perhaps you prefer the term "traitor" instead. It really saddens me to see Americans treat their fellow citizens so shabbily for defending their right to privacy. You are the one who is advocating for a complete disruption of the beliefs this country was founded on. And for what? A false sense of security? A higher profit at someone else's expense? Please tell me.

I stand by my comment to you. I've done my research. According to your own statements, you haven't.