good

I may really like this Schaaf fellow, this is a banner idea. Wonder if he'd like to stop by for a steak and a beer? I'd buy.

as long as it's only to limit the amount of embryo's implanted, not how many children a women can have. we don't need big brother monitoring us in that respect. the medical profession needs to police themselves. the doctor who went forward with this procedure should be held responsible as well and his license should be revoked.

While he's at it why doesn't Schaaf follow sound medical ethics to the logical conclusion of seeking to ban In Vitro Vertilization altogether? After all, it's the ultimate act of selfishness and ego that a couple somehow think that with thousands of children in Missouri alone needing adoption that somehow their "special genetics" must be passed on to another generation. Schaaf has just touched the surface of the untold economic costs that such acts of selfishness force upon society through never-ending medical bills that ultimately we are forced to pay.

Furthermore, the ethical issues are endless, from the millions of embryos killed during the process, aborted when too many are successfully implanted, or left frozen or killed after their "parents" decide they are no longer needed. Plus there are the well documented health issues with children conceived through IVF. The reality is that IVF is the ultimate act of ego gratification that has left a trail of untold suffering, moral outrages, and escalating economic costs as its deplorable legacy.

I don't think limiting the number of babies implanted is the answer here. Then what becomes of the "leftover" babies? Ethically problematic. Why not limit the number of babies created in the first place instead?

And I must say, I respectfully disagree with Mr. Newman's statement of IVF being selfish and "the ultimate act of ego gratification". What an IGNORANT viewpoint. There are many responsible couples who want nothing more than a biological child, who cannot, through various legitimate reasons conceive naturally. Having a biological child is a basic human right, (regardless of other issues, i.e. in the Octuplet's Mother's situation.)

Done RESPONSIBLY there should be no problem with IVF.

AMEN newman!!!
way to go dr. schaff!!

"newman"
Definitely spoken from someone not suffering personally from infertility. Thanks so much for your "warm" response. Hmmm....should I spend $15000 on a "selfish" IVF procedure or $30000 on an adopted child that I don't know the family's genetic history? Oh yeah....I completely trust that everything is disclosed...right. Or maybe I should just "settle" with taking a 5 y/o out of foster care who could have psychological problems that I and my family will have to deal with for the rest of our lives because, God forbid, I wouldn't want to be selfish and try for one of my own. Wonder if "newman" would pay for all the therapy? And regarding all the nonsensical crap about aborting embryos and all that....why don't you visit a fertility clinic and ask them about statistics. "Extras" are very rare and I'd love to have a bunch of "extras" to use. One day I may settle for adopting, but it's MY choice. So stuff your judgment and take a hike, especially until you learn the facts.

"justme"
obviously, you are ignorant of the issue as well. you don't control how many are created!! the typical reason a woman needs ivf is because things aren't working--that means that the doctors utilize every good egg and embryo that is available. please, people, do some research before stating any conclusions you have. ignorance does more damage than you can imagine.

let me clarify....i do not in anyway, condone what this woman did!! i think she abused the service and i think her doctor should be punished. but those of us who truelly need this help don't want to be lumped in with women like her. infertility is an emotionally crushing problem that unless you've gone through it, you wouldn't possibly understand.

JustMe, "Having a biological child is a basic human right" ???? Since when???

JLK, you ARE ALREADY paying for those children, their therapy, etc. via your high TAXES. Who do you want to kid? Why NOT offer them a loving home? Or is it just that these 'loving parents' shouldn't be bothered with less and perfect kids? No 'extras'???? Then WHY OH WHY are there sooooooooooo many frozen embryos???

LMuse: Reproductive rights were first established as a subset of human rights at the United Nation's 1968 International Conference on Human Rights.

JLK: Though I agree with your comments re: newman, I think you've missed the point when refering to me. It is irresponsible, ***irresponsible*** for any physician to use more than 2 or 3 at a time. I don't care how many are "available". Calling names does us no good, let's have some constructive debate. Limiting the number of babies created is responsible. Harvesting and implanting everything slightly viable is not.

justme and JLK - actually my wife and I struggle with infertility and are consequently seeking to adopt so I understand the pain.

I also understand that the thought that having a biological child is a "basic human right" is what has got us into such a mess. Furthermore, referencing the UN, which also tells us that sodomy and infanticide are 'human rights', is hardly citing a credible source.

Lastly we are presently adopting foster children as a consequence. Yes it is very frustrating and you need to consider all the issues but ultimately doesn't every child deserve a loving mother and father? Besides, some of you may argue that not having my genetic inadequancies propagated on to the next generation may be a blessing in itself. ;-)

boy, so much to say, and yet i don't know why i'd bother. walk a day, week, month, year, ten years in my shoes and then tell me more "facts" on this issue. i stand by what i said, although my actual thoughts and figures are much deeper and factual than the little bit i posted here. i guess if i wanted to spend time defending myself against people who think they have the right to tell me and others like me how we should feel or the responsibilities we should or shouldn't bare, then i'd go into greater detail. but i haven't the time nor the want, so tootles. go educate yourselves.

Thank you, Newman! I think you have the most level head in the bunch.

justme, Citing the UN to support 'human rights' is an oxymoron. I much prefer ethics and morals.

jmk, no one is claiming infertility isn't painful. We just understand that the avoidance of pain isn't the ultimate ends so many make it out to be. Everyone has their cross to bear. Some just face the facts better than others. This "ME" generation is driving our nation into hell.

i've been gnashing my teeth all evening and finally felt compelled to give all those who cite "facts & figures" a crash course on ivf (hopefully to dispell all the misinformation that finds its way into many conversations): first, to justme, let me try to sum up the ivf procedure in few words. 1)no woman on fert meds is guaranteed to produce any mature eggs needed for fertilization. 2) depending on the age/fertility issue, the majority of mature eggs that get fertilized don't make it to day 3. 3) of those that make it to day 3, many of those don't make it to day 5 (blastocyst stage--now viewed as the optimal stage for implantation by most doctors). 4) if the woman is lucky enough to have 1-3 embryos for a transfer, her chances of them implanting vary according to her age--let's just say that the numbers aren't the greatest. 5) there are very few woman suffering with infertility that are ever lucky enough to have "left over" embryos to freeze. those of us that do, then have the next wonderful emotional rollercoaster ride, praying that they survive the thaw process--the chances are usually no greater than 20%. so, as you can see, the logic behind "creating fewer babies" doesn't hold water....it just doesn't work that way as i said before. if you want to go into greater detail and get a deeper understanding, talk with a professional and also ask them about genetic testing...that'll give you an even greater appreciation for the entire process and what is at stake. second, to newman, i can't say that i am entirely surprised to read that you are a man. i have to wonder if your wife feels completely 100% as you do or if she perhaps has her own personal struggle that maybe she doesn't share with you. if she thinks as you do, she is honestly the only woman struggling with infertility that i have come across that has no desire to turn to the medical profession for help. i have never talked with another woman who felt wanting her own child and seeking treatment was "selfish" and "egotistical". i suppose it's possible, but i've got to think they're few and far between.

lastly, to lmuse, please get off your high horse and stop putting words in my mouth. did i say anything negative about the wonderful people in the world who adopt special needs children or take in foster kids? i was simply being candid and honest stating that my husband and i have opted to not take in foster children because we do not feel comfortable nor equipped to do so. not that every foster child has severe problems, but yes, they do have scars that are theirs for life and we made the decision that that is not the right decision for us. i commend and applaud any person who takes in foster kids and gives them a loving home...it takes special people to do that. as for adopting, we may one day face that decision, and that is a big decision that also can have unexpected life altering results. but do not cast stones at me for hoping to have my own child over raising someone else's. if god blesses me with a child and it ends up being a special needs child then that is one thing, but lashing out at me because we have valid concerns and worries about adoption is just simply bullying. and you are right, we do pay for a small percentage of the care for unwanted or neglected children in the foster care system or those that have been permantly placed, but i don't think i have to ask my friend who has guardianship over 2 children with emotional problems how much the state's assistance helps. i already know the answer to that question...not much. so again, i say kudos to those people who take that responsibility on...financially, emotionally, physically, etc. however, don't look down your nose at me and those like me and say that if we're not fortunate enough to be blessed with children of our own, to suck it up and raise someone else's. sorry, that's not how it works. i hope i've offered a little bit of clarity to those that don't have an understanding of the ivf process (it was a very condensed version but i think you get the point). as i said before, i do not under any circumstance think that what ms. suleman did was ethical or morally right. but i will not let anyone make me feel bad for making the decisions i have and trying to make my dreams come true.

oh yeah....as far as "not facing the facts as well as others", who is the "we" in the "we just understand the avoidance of pain..."? are you kidding me?! who are you? that's rather arrogant! and the comment about being part of the "me" generation, sorry, but you couldn't be any further from the truth....you don't know our stories so how do you think you have the right to put all of us in that category? selfish is definitely one thing i'm not, thank you very much, and neither are the other women i know dealing with infertility. sorry, but i have no use for anyone who wishes to put him/herself on some sort of pedastal, claiming that he knows how to handle reality better than i or anyone else does. you are extremely arrogant and narrow minded. i know the "facts" all too well and believe me, i deal with them daily. i think it is you who needs a good dose of reality along with a good helping of humility (and a sprinkle of compassion wouldn't hurt you either).

Once again, Schaaf has his priorities all mixed up. This legislation is unwarranted. Is there really a rush to fertility clinics to be impregnated with large numbers of embryos? Or is this merely a means to gather headlines to "protect" us from imagined wrongs? Perhaps in the spirit of all those eponymous laws, we should call this the "Old Woman who Lived in a Shoe" law.

Let's focus on real issues which need attention.

JLK is spot on with her comments. I was diagnosed with infertility as a teen. It is a problem that me and my husband are pained with every moment of our lives. IVF is a complicated process that every woman responds to differently and this legislation will take away from the good drs trying to help their patients. For the record, there are only 7 clinics in Missouri that offer IVF. All of those clinics have to report on the number of IVF cycles performed per year, how many embryos are transferred and how many births (particularly triplets and greater) result. This information is available at www.sart.org if you would like to see it for yourself. There are VERY few triplet or greater births in this state as a result of IVF.

Often when more than the recommended number of embryos are transferred (not implanted, drs cannot do that, the embryos have to do that themselves) it is because there are quality issues (yes, there is a complicated grading system used to evaluate embryos) with the embryos and the extra embryo is not expected to implant anyhow.

Ms. Suleman's doctor is a criminal in my opinion, but we don't need to impose unnecessary legislation in this state that makes up look as dumb as Georgia.

This legislation opens the door to politicians telling you and me how many children we can have. The couples seeking to grow their families using ART and their doctors are not the problem here. By the way, 1 in 6 couples is challenged by infertility. Imposing these regulations will only send these couple out of state to get treatments and they will come home to Missouri. This legislation only hurts a our economy and makes treatments more inaccessible to more potential families.

It's always fun to watch people who actually have no idea what IVF or adoption involve throw their opinions around regarding those topics. (If you've think embryos are "implanted," then yes, I'm talking to you.) JLK, I wish you luck in your crusade here, but I've found that generally people who have strong opinions on the crosses that they don't personally bear cannot be reasoned with easily. Infertility is tough enough. Don't let others' insensitivity add to your burden.

Yes Good luck JLK!! My wife and I are expecting twins in a few months due to an IVF treatment. A boy and a girl... Our doctor specificaly said that he would not put in more than two embryos because he didn't want to be on TV with the two of us and our 7 children. So at least our doctor is responsible.

I think the Dr that implanted the embryos into the woman in Ca should support the kids until they are at least 18. It looks to me like he was as irresponsible as any other man that impregnates a woman and should pay child support!