Yep...just another example of a "tax" without a sunset clause....and THIS one doesn't even get to come to the voters....

Not so fast! The city manager would like everyone to believe that "...the city was “blameless and faultless”" in what will now systematically occur in relation to the increased sewer fees.
Well, how long has has this "wolf" been at the door steps of city hall?
One thing for certain, now that the engine has burnt up from lack of oil and needs rebuilding, it is once again all the loyal taxpayers faced with picking up the bill for not planning and addressing this issue far in advance.

Wasn't St. Joe the last city on the Missouri to stop pumping raw sewage directly into the river? That's the urban legend anyway.

It seems that this may be the time to start considering wells especially people who have the property and know the water is there. Since your sewer bill is conneted to your water consumption it would seem the way to go. We will see what kind of road blocks the city can put in front of this.

Do you know how the sewer bill is calculated? Is it a percent of monthly usage?

Thanks!

Hey St. Joe, build more urban trails! Nope that doesn't help. How about using the urban trail money on the sewers! To easy. I know it won't solve but a drop in the bucket is still a drop.

This problem is 50 years old, in some sections of the city over a hundred years old. The present regime inherited the problem from years past. We as a city will have to deal with it now. No need to place blame on the current council and manager. They had nothing to do with creating the problem.

Let me make something perfectly clear. THE CITY HAS NO CHOICE IN THIS MATTER!

Got that? No choice at all. Unless you want to secede from the union or move away, you and I are stuck with it.

Gosh I wouldn't want to secede from the union. It might be a lot easier to just move outside the city limits.

JohnGalt - Correct me if wrong but some key decision makers have been with the city for more than a decade; in fact nearly two or more. While reasonable to cut some slack to any of the newbies, the sewer problem has existed, as you point out, a sufficient amount of time to have been recognized as a priority problem coming our way requiring action.
There are always options in dealing with matters such as this and now, "THE CITY HAS NO CHOICE IN THIS MATTER" "got that" no choice because of insufficient foresight in planning and in dealing with a situation that was clearly heading its way.

Perhaps we "are stuck with it" but that does not mean those responsible for getting us to this point can not be held accountable.

well, that's only a latte' a week, huh jay?

Of course, things could have been done in the fifties or sixties to mitigate the problem (somewhat) but the voters would never have gone for it. Look at what happened to the school district. In forty years people will be asking "Why didn't they build new schools a few at a time when they had the chance?"

I was talking to a Councilman ten or fifteen years ago and he told me at the time there was a ticking time bomb concerning the sewer system and the EPA. He also told me that the council would never be able to fix it on it's own. The citizenry would never go for it until it was forced by the EPA. And he was 100% correct.

How in the world do you propose to "hold someone accountable"? Those people have been gone for years. Out of curiosity, apmastrangelo, how old are you and have you lived here all your life? This is not a trick question, by the way. I am merely interested in your background and depth of knowledge of the city.

Sounds more like the city counsel members are more than willing to let the wolf inside the house.

JohnGalt - Agree that no one was going to have the common sense to begin work on this in the 50 or 60's but the hand writing has been on the wall for at least one decade and that is when starting with even a marginal plan to mitigate the current situation would have gone a long way.
John, you strike me as the kind of individual not taking mediocracy lightly. Working from that premiss please consider the following. The city pays a six figure salary to a city manager that is charged with managing its functions. Does it not seem reasonable for this individual and others having positions of authority to have understood the ramifications of doing nothing during even the last 5 years by sounded the alarms for action. Personally I feel people in pay grades such as these are there because of their ability to demonstrate their worth on matters such as this. Otherwise the city could save a lot of money by hiring a couple of 40K administrators. So yes, this lack of action by those charged with managing city affairs is now going to have a far reaching financial impact to the city which also means there could be consequences.
To satisfy your curiosity; no, I have not lived in Saint Joe all my life, and now working on my 6th decade.

I will concede doing something earlier would have beaten doing nothing at all, but any mitigation attempts would have been beaten back at the polls. And any cry of warning would have been seen as a cry of "Wolf." Even the latest warnings have been shrugged off, until the rate increase was actually announced. No one believed it until it hit our pocket book.

Fair is fair, I am closer to sixty than fifty and, with the exception of a few years overseas, have lived here all my life. I don't know everything but I know a few things. I know most people do not look into the future past next week. I know people do not value the abstract. I know that if present as an option at the polls, a $100,000,000 bond issue to upgrade the sewer system voluntarily would fall flat on it's face. These things I know with absolute certainty.

?jg the sad thing is that when the clean water act began the framework for the mitigation, there was a lot of money available. one of this county's few "Funded" federal mandates. since this has been deferred for so long the cost is substantially more.

also, this city continuously relies on the mercurial CIP (pork) tax for funding. no one wanted to even whisper sewer/federal before the much ballyhooed passage of the most recent offering. while i haven't lived here more than one election cycle, i would wager that the short term necessity of the passage of the CIP had trumped long term less sexy projects such as the sewers for a while.

the mayor, the council, the CM and all the people who pushed the most recent CIP all knew for a certainty that the inescapable sewer expense was approaching like a tsunami. not one of those officials even bothered to put a word of caution in to the voters.

st joseph cannot continue to demand services without recognizing the need for bonding for city projects. we have to start a reasonable approach to our funding. we abandoned a reasonable impact fee.

something has to give.

Nothing has changed in the past 20 to 30 years, the tax payers and businesses have been paying the sewer tax and then some for improving the sewer system and the city slaps a patch on it and calls it fixed until the next time the city needs money or it falls aprat/caves-in. Then the city is hollering it needs more money. If the problem (again) is as real as city hall claims it is, then with the 17 percent increase in the sewer tax, the elitists in city hall can take a 17 percent pay cut. I know I have being paying for this repair for sometime, but it has not happened and as usally the city wants more money to do it.

John - Interesting perspective and guess the citizens now have the realization of being hit where it hurts, the pocket book. Those unable or unwilling to look no further than next week are learning the true meaning of paying the piper.
heritage - good observation about CIP and the conduct of the mayor, council and CM. I would remind all reading about the recent comments by the CM indicating impact fees were not worth collecting. Any one care to hazard a guess on how appropriately structured impact fees could have helped in changing this picture.

Cannot wait to see what falls out on this one as time goes on.

Hello ww - you are not alone!

apm, for one thing the city might not be still trying to negotiate a price for the last of the sewer property right of way with the wife of a county commissioner? did that finally get resolved?

i must admit i went to the council work session on that issue, and vince is damn good. i actually walked out of that meeting conVINCEd that for st joseph impact fees were not a good idea. then i woke up.

Hi heritage - I know what you mean and exactly among the points at issue.
This is what so many in the city fail to recognize and how severely decisions such as those are not being made in the interest of the taxpayer.
The position of VC on impact fees is a common ploy often used. It makes no difference whether this results from a lack of understanding on how to establish such fees or for more cynical reasons benefiting developers, but the result is always the same when it happens; the taxpayers lose.

I did the math on this, and it really isn't all that bad. Suppose the EPA decides we need to do the full 400 million plan. I looked at the 2000 census figures and there are 29,026 occupied housing units in the city. For the sake of ease, let's figure 25,000 residential sewer hookups. That makes every household's share $16,000. Now if the EPA gives us 20 years to get it done, that makes $800 per year or $66.66 per month. So if we put a 66 buck surcharge on sewer charges, we would be out of the woods in 20 years. That should be easily handled. I actually expect the EPA would give us more time than that, and there would be more sewer hookups than 25,000 once you figure in the business hookups. It would not be painless, but it would be doable.

*Smack myself on the forehead! Dang it! I forgot! The city can't even afford 5 bucks a month for education! What was I thinking?

Never mind, forget I said anything. ;)

Well, I can not afford any increases in anything unless I find a decent paying job soon.

It's going to get worse before it gets better, I do not think we've hit bottom yet.

Hello apm. Well it looks like one of the scenarios I have mentioned in previous posts with this is going to become a reality by default. I love it, the community can't seem to come together after decades of neglect to fix it, the FED finally decides they are going to make the community fix it and force the issue. Looks like all those visits to Jef city for meetings to try and mitigate this are being ignored or very little accomplished. In my opinion, its pretty consistent following the path of the present presidential administration's efforts to go "green" and supporting EPA initiatives.