November 21, 2009
What's Inside:
Campaign groups make final push for school levy
The wish list shrank in seven months. In April, voters were asked to continue a 63-cent operating levy without a sunset clause and pass a bond to build two new schools.
Both issues failed.
Now St. Joseph School District and levy campaign officials are asking voters to grant one simple request: on Tuesday, vote yes to pass a 63-cent levy with a five-year sunset clause.
“I think a yes vote is justified to keep giving us funding for the children of our community,” said Jason Park, campaign co-chairman for “Our Children. Our Future. Our Decision.”
The levy measure, which needs a simple majority to pass, failed by 172 votes last April. Many felt the lack of a sunset clause and being tethered to a bond issue helped bring about its failure. Other factors were a weakened economy and opposition from a group known as “Citizens Against Forever Tax.”
Fronted by Ken Reeder, a former substitute teacher, the opposition group accused school officials of excessive spending. The group filed a report against school officials with the Missouri Ethics Commission, claiming campaign violations. Only one violation stuck: a district employee using a copying machine to print campaign literature.
Some things have changed since April, and some things have remained the same. Now it’s a citizen’s group called “Our Children. Our Future. Our Decision,” that leads the campaign. The group also took it upon itself to develop and fund a long-range plan for the district.
The economy is still unsteady. And there’s opposition.
Even though there is no sunset clause this time around, there’s still Citizens Against Forever Tax. This time, Jeff Roe of Axiom Strategies is its spokesman. And Ed Catron, who once ran for the school board, is listed as treasurer.
The opposition message is basically the same: wasteful spending by the school district and lack of accountability.
Salvos have been tossed back and forth between the pro- and anti-levy camps, leading up to the vote.
Citizens Against Forever Tax claimed that Gary Myers, an attorney serving as a spokesman for “Our Children. Our Future. Our Decision,” is working against the district by representing a Weston school district. The pro-levy campaign filed a claim with the Missouri Ethics Commission, alleging violations by Citizens Against Forever Tax.
Adding to this is the fact that some voters are still upset about the district closing two schools and redrawing the boundaries shortly after the failure of the April vote.
But Diane Watson, school board president, said it’s exceedingly important that the levy passes. The district not only needs the 63-cent levy restored, but it’s good for the community in attracting future employers.
“Without that, we’re not only putting our schools and our children in danger, but we’re putting our city in danger,” Ms. Watson said. “Firms who want to come in here or bring people in here, the first thing they’re going to look at is, does the community value education?”
Ms. Watson added that independent auditors gave the district good reports on its finances. She said anyone is welcome to come to the district offices to review the books.
“The reason people have given us that we need the sunset clause is because they are not sure we are handling the funds responsibly,” Ms. Watson said. “I would invite anybody who has the interest to go down and go over our auditor’s report.”
But Bill Guenther, a local businessman, isn’t convinced the district needs the money. He said he will vote against it, partly because the economy is still in bad shape.
“The real irritation is that this is always billed as something for the children,” Mr. Guenther said. “This is not for the children. Primarily, this is for the teachers and the staff. They’re the ones who are going to benefit from the 63-cent levy if it’s passed.”
Mr. Guenther said he thinks teachers are overpaid for the hours they work.
“Teachers have a basic six-and-a-half-hour work day, work 180 days a year and receive a very generous retirement from it,” he said. “Where can somebody start in with no experience and get over $30,000 a year?”
According to information from the Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, St. Joseph School District teachers make less than the state average. Statewide, total annual average teachers’ salaries are $45,027, compared to $44,074 for the St. Joseph School District.
But administrators statewide make an average of $80,208 annually, while in St. Joseph, administrators make an average of $86,208.
Mr. Catron said that discrepancy in salaries is one issue he has with the district.
“I am for the children and for the teachers, but I am very concerned the district pays our teachers below the state average and our administrators above the state average,” he said. “During a recession, for this district to ask families for more money without a strategic plan, I think is irresponsible,”
He also said it was irresponsible of the district to close Neely and Webster elementary schools. Those schools served a low-income population, he said, and studies have shown that low-income children do better in smaller schools, compared to higher-income students doing better in larger schools.
“The closing of the two schools in lower-income areas was criminal,” he said.
Mr. Park said the levy decision is ultimately up to voters. He said he would rather not have a sunset clause, but the group listened to voters last time.
“That’s something for people in this community, the sunset gives them a very high level of comfort,” he said.
He asked voters to not listen to outside interests telling the community how to run its schools.
“We’re very excited about Tuesday,” Mr. Park said. “We think we’ve done the best job we can to put ourselves in a position to get this passed, and we’re going to do all we can the next few days to get our supporters to the polls and vote yes for this.”
Alonzo Weston can be reached
at alonzow@npgco.com.
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I see Mrs Watson is worried about the levy failing and she is begging ofr it to pass.Well Mrs Watson when you all were making decisions that wereaffecting people lives in a harmfull way by closing schools and redistricting everybody and causing undue hardships on family's already having hard time because of the economy you should have thought about the next time you asked the community to pass this levy.It is now going to come back and bit you in the butt and 2 days before the election you are worried.I also have to agree that closing the 2 schools so quickly you and the board did nothing but hurt family's in these areas of our community and then you want these people to support you.You all and I you all(TF,BOARD,ADMIN)must live in some fantacy world if you think these parents and the parents of the 1400 children you moved are going to support you.Although I do not support the citizens group Mr Catron makes a valid point that the administrators are paid above state average and the teachers are below something is wrong with that picture in my opinion.And especially for the job performance our administrators have demistrated to us.You alll need replaced but the sad fact is we will only get 2 new board members but hopefully we get ones that are pro community and will engage the community and make the rest of yours life miserable for the remaining of your alls time in there.I still also believe we need a new superintendent.And for those of you that say this is not them way to approach this by taking money from them I at this point disagreewith you all because if we give them this money which I also believe will only be fore the admin and teacher and not the schools and children it will be business as usual with these people so NO on Tuesday holds them accountable and will get their attention real quick.And also any further cuts they may make will be awlful difficult for them to do without the communitys outrage and then where will they be.They need to roll up their sleves get a little dirty and get out in the community and work to get what is right for the schools.
The TF(OCOFOD) would like us to thinks this is all of the community's fault for the levy failing in April and it showing signs of fail on Tueday Nov 3rd.What they fail to see and hear is this time it is not all about the sunset cluas on the levy.This time the district in a way made it personal for the community by either closing their schools or moving 1400 children to a different school.Busing children clear accross town and then allienating the community till the last few days of the cmpaign.I also believe this is not the right levy and does not address what our schools and children really need.Now since the levy shows signs of failing all of these people are worried and they should be.But they waited to long to start engaging the community and still have not engaged all parts of the community even though they would want one to believe they have but they go to other areas of the community and hit and miss just for they can sit a sign in the yard.Is it right for people to retaliate and vote no well at thispoint since you all have failed to listen to the community and peoples concerns mainly the SJSD/SJSB I believe this is exactly what will happen.NO on Tuesday No on Tuesday.
mm1967, your idea on how the schools should be run has been hurt. So, you seem to be seeking to take out your revenge. On this Sunday morn, I pray that healing come to your hurt soul.May a peace that passes all understanding come to all who harbor bitterness when life doesn't go the way they want it to go.
usedtobe
My reason for voting No is because this levy does not take us put of the distressed state after a couple of years and we will be right back to where we are today.The district should have used the last 6 months to engage the entire community and gain trust and support for a levy wit hthe communitys input and then put it on the April 2010 ballot.
The reason I believe it will failed mentioned above are in my opinion that this levy will fail and it is pretty easy to see this and hear this in our community.People have been very loud with their voices about this and it feel upon deaf ears.Sure some of the above mentioned in my post are my beliefs and some are what I have heard out in the community.You see I do get out and have more to do in the community then most know andit is easy to hear this.I wonder how many times the TF (OCOFOD) group heard some of the same things when they were out knocking on door? I bet if they would admit it they heard it quite a bit and they have been worried about this passing for some time now.The poll I have spoke of on Kqtv shows what kind of support they do not have for this levy and it mainly is because of the SJSD/SJSB actions after the levy failed in April and this is how the commnity will make them answer questions that they have been unwilling to address since that time.
usedtoby I appreciate the prayer and I understand where you are coming from but the fact remains this is how the community will address the situation and they will be forgiven for their bitterness at the right time.
why does mrs watson not have the confidence to make that valid argument regarding the district? mrs watson will not take responsibility for having made the completely insane decision to put a bond issue on with the levy. mrs watson will not recognize that there were a plethora of reasons why voters turned down the bond/levy las time. she would rather blame the community for not seeing the (flawed) "vision" , for worrying about putting food on the table, for wanting transparency.
why doesn't the district put their financials on their website? why doesn't watson listen to her own CFO who states definitively that .63 is inadequate? why doesn't watson admit that the BOE is already planning to violate the five year sunset.... and that they will HAVE to because the .63 cents will place the district in stress by the fourth year of its existence, and probably sooner?
mrs. watson, you have held the feet of the voters over the fire with enough with your thinly veiled threats. first you were outraged that the public didn't buy your promise of a mini-stimulus for local contractors. then you tried to sell us on the dark cloud theory. now you make dire predictions of economic doom if voters don't see things your way.
there is not a single valid reason given by the district for supporting this levy except that we should vote for the children. has mrs. watson considered for a single moment that those who oppose this are also thinking of their children, or is only the opinion of mrs. watson to be sanctified? arrogance, pure arrogance.
Some random thoughts after reading this article... I had begun to wonder what ever happened to Bill Guenther. Seriously, has Bill ever voted FOR a revenue issue in St. Jo, even when the economic times were good? My other reaction was to Mrs. Watson. I don't know that this is true now, but, one of the main recruiters to get businesses to come to town used to be, 1) average low salaries, and 2) low tax base. I hope that has changed, but I doubt it. I think a school with mold should be either SERIOUSLY fixed or shut down, but, politically, to close two schools when you have to come back to pass another levy is not strategically deep. My suggestion is for the people who are against the sunset this time, to remember the next time when they are for the issue, many of the same arguments heard here now (for and against) the schools, will still be being argued then.
Dillygent1,
You are correct this is going to be a battle to get a levy passed in this town we are going to have those who are upset with the closing of schools and redistricting issue which is going to be there for a while.
Then you have ones who want the sunset and ones who do not.
Then you have people who do not want any new taxes and ones who the economy is hurting deeply and have been for a while.
Then you have people on fixed income that jusat plain cannot afford a new tax but some would say the elderly get a tax credit and that may be the case but hen the taxes are due they will have to take money from something else to pay them and then have to wait for their tax credit.
There is a lot to do if indeed this levy fails at it is starting to become more clear it will people are goingto have to come out from behind their desk and roll their dleves up and work with the community to earn trust back and buy in to a levy that will meet people in t he middle ground.But the SJSD/SJB must do this and it will ly in their hands.People will send them a message Tuesday and then they will have no choice but to listen.
In regard of who the players are -
according to the Missouri Ethics Report the CAFT received $35,000 form teamsam form Chicago in October - teamsam is the fundrasing arm of the Sam Adams Alliance which is also in Chicago. The Sam Adams Alliance is a non profit organization which takes no federal money but is funded by private funds. The Sam Adams is a watchdog group concerned with goverment waste. A group from Sam Adams is the American Majority. This group sets up training in cities across the United States including Kansas City to get ordinary citizens involved in polotics.
From thier website is the following of their mission statement -
Educational freedom expanded and the power of the unions reduced or removed from our schools is an example of this principle advanced.
Their web site contains many articals concerning privatizing schools. It is clear after reading much material of both the Sam Adams Alliance and the American Majority - this group wants to take goverment out of our lives, fight against taxes and public schools.
What is concerning is that they hide their donors and a group that demand transparency from goverment oonducts itself in the complete oppositte. This group has fought agaisnt a Kansas City trasportation tax, Platte City Parks and Recreation Tax and many local taxes. (more in second post)
Heritage, there are some people who will vote "no" on an issue just to vote "no". They require no reason to vote "no". They just do. What the school district should have done was to maintain a dialogue with everybody directly impacted by the school district. That includes parents and staff. I don't think they did this. I really don't think the main office recognizes, (in their feeling of omnipotence), the necessity of this connection, so they basically try to ignore it. If you do not have YOUR people, the people directly impacted by your decisions, on board, you will have a hard time trying to convert the "aginners", those who habitually vote against you.
it is the goal of the American Majority is to get their people invovled in the local level of city, civic and school board elecitons.
It is clear the people agaisnt the school district and the funding from teamsam which is Sam Adams Alliance is wanting to convice the citizens of the St Joe community to turn on their own to weaken the schools. This cannot be more apparent than the pieces of mail we are receiving.
Now for the past month we have seen posts from many whos message seem to be in line with those from the American Majority and Sam Adams. It is clear we have those in our community which has brought this funding into the fight. We must now question anyone of opposition if they have ever attend or have any connection to these groups duirng the school board election.
Sence give it a rest we all know about your group you have told us about for about the hundredth time move on and get past it already.This group is not going to have anything to do with the levy failing the SJSB/SJSD IS RESPONSIBLE if the levy fails and them alone.
Ido not care about this group and do not support them and quite frankly am sick of hearing about them from you.
sense, you continue to post comments which you clearly feel are against AM.....
taking government out of our lives is a bad thing?????? you are unwittingly arguing FOR the failure of the levy with your partisan slip showing......
Most of these opposition posts came after the board listened to a small grass roots organization called ACE. This group formed after the levy failed and schools were closed Many postings have come from these people who either belong to this group or support them, yougotta claims to be one of the founding fathers of the group. Heariage spoke for the group during the school board meeting. After the board listened and decided to go with the plans of TF Hearitage as quoted in the paper told the board "I will not oppose the effort". :MM will attached himself to anyone who wishes to make the district look bad.
This group has every right to voice opinions and such, but everyone reading their posts needs to understand they only wish to push their agenda.
I may be wrong, but I think that anybody who funds a non-profit group in a large way to try to shrink government, must have a lot of money in the first place. They have figured a way to make it, either by inheritance, business deals, or worked for it. Often times, our society rewards getting ahead. It does not reqard whether you did it ethically or not. It just regards whether you got ahead at all. The problem is that sometimes, when you got ahead, you did it at somebody else's expense. In this case, it could very well be the children.
Sence must be one of those Tf members or in positon with the SJSD and are grasping at all straws to get this levy passed.
I personally believe it will be a open and shut case come Tuesday night with the levy failing the poll is still climbing in the no votes people.
Sence sorry you think this but you are 150% wrong but since you touched on the subject nobody has to make the SJSD/SJSB bad but themselves they hold that title ask the community this question and you will find people think the board and the admin are just jokes and need replaced.
Hearitage - really - if the goal of this group which you defend I may add is to make schools privite, then fine, build your schools they way you want them. Instead of funding campains against public schools, put your money into building your own schools.
Tell me, what happens to all those urban school districts without public funding? What happens to all the special needs kids without public funding? Who pays for all the free and reduced lunches without public funding?
You want school districts ran by corporte America, which is becoming more global corportate - not me. Public fundding is the goverement, we are the goverment, we pay taxes and then we decide by voting school board members and becoming part of the school how we use that money. We don't cut the money off so we can have leaverage on how to change things which is what you and those of ACE wants.
Simply put, remove goverment from our lives, we are the goverment.
Ok sence then our school goveremnt is corrupt as well think about that one for a monument.They have their own personal agendas as well.See this could go either way with you arguement against this group.Some goverment is need and their are some that are just waste.
sense is apparently here as a reincarnation of a poster who was so vile and offensive that every single one of her posts was wiped from the record on these comments.
everyone has their "own agenda". some choose to snipe from cover without regard for civility, and espouse complete disdain for those who actually work for their beliefs, rather than sit at a computer screen and harp away.
i am able to state that i am personally committed to fully funding our schools. that requires a defeat of this inadequate levy. if the rantings of the former participant apple were available in the archives, i would be happy to draw on them to illustrate that she completely changed her "conscience" in supporting the current levy.... and that her level of participation included childishly rude inventions of acronyms which " concealed" incredibly inappropriate vulgarisms.
So sad to see a person who can debate go into the gutter of posting. I stand by my posts here and whoever you beleive me to be has no bering on what I posts. As always with those I engaged in debate the discussion goes off what is stated to try to tear down the person posting it. Much like the fliers sent out by CAFT with pictures of school board members, who volunteer their time for the community and call them clowns. No debate, no information, just mud slinging.
Again cannot defend agaisnt logic you go into the gutter. Engagment for ACE and those in support of ACE is not to question anything about them, how is this going to bring the community togeter?
The district, and this with minor exception means the entire board including Dr. Smith, are failing in their obligations to advance the educational system in Saint Joseph.
The vote on Tuesday really comes down to the following choices. Approve a levy that will do nothing more than allow the BOE to continue on a course that has not served to improve the educational excellence of the city, or vote down the measure thereby demanding the district to formulate a program that effectively addresses the concerns of the entire community including expansion, districting, and teacher development.
There is sufficient evidence during the previous years to demonstrate why the SJSD has not progressed. If the people do not send a clear message on what they want to happen the only thing that will be seen by approving this measure is more of the same and that should not be acceptable to anyone having concern for the success of the educational system of the city.
Please don't assume because of some poll this levy will pass or will fail. Every vote counts ,so please get out on Tuesday and vote.
Mr G, teachers I know work 8 to 9 hours per day, get no paid vacation, and are essentially laid off 3 months every year.
So according to a St. Joseph business person, somebody with a four year college degree and professional should not start off with more than $30,000 a year? He also beleives teachers are overpaid? Is this the portion of the community we really want to listen to. Is this line of thinking the reason why our pay scale is so low in this community? I don't know this mans buinseses perhaps he is more concerned he may have to pay more reasonalbe rate if this passes
mm1967, given an thought to how you will occupy your time after Tuesday?
Does Mr. Guenther not understand teachers pay into thier retirement funds, it's not just give to them. Also notice a simularity amoung treasures of "CAFT" Reeder fired subsitute teacher, Catron, defeated in running for school board member, and about anything else he has ran for. These people have nothing more than axes to grind.
drbjr,
I am sure there will still be people on here posting especially you and your TF because you all are going to be very upset I believe come Tuesday night when the results are shown.
You seem to think this will end come Tuesday you are sadly mistaken it will go on for some time to come till we get the levy passed for the long term and communication begins with the district this may take till new board members are elected and push the issue with the current members.This will be far from over especially as long as the TF(OCOFOD) GROUP IS INVOLVED.And by thew way I will be just fine.
sence what is your axe you are trying to grind and with who?It as well seem as if you are a bitter person.And one who thinks they have all of the answers.
Let it be known Im organizing a new committee which will become active if the Citizens Against Forever Tax ever becomes active in the community again. My committe will be Citizens against Citizens against forever tax" I will run a campain against them that would make the people at Axium blush. Every person in St. Joseph who is part of the American Majority or Sam Adams or Citizens Against Forever Tax will be exposed. I will hit with radio, newspaper, television and direct mail, I need not receive any donations, I can handle this myself. If you feel having your school board members drug through the mud was fun, wait till you see what I do to you.
I hope you have alot of money to accomplish all of the above you have posted because I think these people can hang inthere with you.Talk is cheap.Our board member with the eception of Mr Snethen deserve whatthey are getting in my opinion they have created this mess for the district anddddit will take some time to come to clean it up.I went to school here all of my years and I have never seen our schools as messed up as they are today.
I have plenty and I know plenty who will help - heck I may just do it for fun without an election. It does not suprize me you would stand with Axuim and their mailers and support thier mailers. I think it is great people are seeing a very clear picture what you truly wish to achieve.
Hey heres a idea since you have so much just donate that to tthe school and the people who have ran them into the ground. There's a idea.Heck start you group now what's stopping you?
I think that is what I posted, Im starting my own committee -
see voting our beliefs were a given right to me when I was born a US Citizen and when I turned 18.I do not mind paying my fair share of school taxes.But we have been down this road before go ahead and vote yes and under fund them and when they come back in a couple of years and ask for more and are told no then dont go off the deep end.Also this vote will have a major impact on the long term planning for the district which involves biulding new schools think about it when you are voting yes as well.Because people will not vote for this plan as well.And who's fault will that be?The district and current board will be the blame along with the TF(OCOFOD).
Keep us up todate on how you and your committee are doing.Hope you enjoy wasting your money.
I will enjoy wasting my money as it seems you enjoy time on the computer
You are here as much as I am and have been for months just as a different person thought right.
i wondered wat out of work washed up politicians did in st. Joseph, oh yeah they opposse school levy's, catron and guenther probably eat dinner with each other sunday nights debating how they got beat in their election failures, guess this jus gives them something to do.
sense i like you why not expose the members anyway so we can see who in town wants to dumb down the citizens and their children! lets expose them and boycott any services they can offer to this town. people like them make me sick! should be called people against forever educating! as for the sam adams group thats probably what they are drinking to make them think what they are doing is right! but sense expose them right here lets see who the bottom feeders in st. joe are!
It's unfortune some feel it necessary to level personal attacks against Mr. Catron and Mr. Guenther. I know Mr. Catron casually, have known Mr. Guenther for many years. I attended a forum when Mr. Catron ran for the school board, and he clearly was the most informed candidate there. Unfortunately, he did not have the name recognition needed for election. Mr. Guenther has taken some stands I do not agree with, but he is a principled man who stands up for what he believes in. I commend him for that.
Well, as a teacher in a district to the south of you I can say that you indeed are losing highly qualified educators with your salary schedule. Don't get me wrong, there are tradeoffs, St Joseph is an amazingly good place to raise a family within a great community, but when you can make considerably more 45 minutes away that is pull. Teaching will never make you a millionaire, nor should it, but being able to live a decent life and put your own kids thru college should be attainable.
And a word of warning about the 6.5 hour day/180 day year..not true as it goes way beyond that and think of who you want in front of your kids everyday...you get what you pay for IMHO....
mm 1967 you are right, it wont be over wednesday, people like you and sense will bicker and slam each other for weeks to come. it really doesnt matter how the vote goes, neither one of you will be happy with the outcome. the winner will be saddened by the fact that all this time was wasted and we could have been settled by listening to you only. both sides will think that. sense, you sure blow your top easy. so does mm, i am so full of the both of you!i know 2thirds of us bystanders are.i am only interested in all children getting educations in st. Joe. not the rich who can afford to build schools or the poor who have had schools closed out from under them.it is sad that we just cant all get along. the two of you need to give each other a big hug and move on.sorry to offend, no one else got enough air time because of the two of you! oh well, no one wants to read me either so just move on and blank out what you have just read.
I have been reading these comments for a while and finally decided to weigh in myself. I agree with everything mm1967 has to say,I'm glad ACE is opposed to levy renewal!
Krazy_Kathy
I do not think ACE is opposing this as a group some of the members speak on their own behalf but not as a group.The citizens group is opposing the levy however. I also am glad to see people come on here that have not been here and post thier bleiefs as you have and glad to see other think the same about the mess we are in.
okay lets make a deal, we promise to only build an old school on the east side, just a joke guys -
It was an absolutely beautiful day in St. Joseph. Great day to spend time outside enjoying the warm fall weather and doing something productive. I appreciate all the opportunity I have been given (or worked for) in St. Joseph – I support our children, public education and the future of this community. Count me as a YES vote on Tuesday!
How about we biuld one to replace Neely and For sure we need to replace Hall which by the way is in worse shape then Neely ever thought about being in.Then lets address Hyde and Humbolt.Humbolt is old as well and used to be a Hospital years and years ago.Open Webster back up and bus the children from the NE that need a school it is close and in great shape and is being waste of space.Theres a plan on biulding new schools to kick around replace the ones we have first that are old and in need of major repair or refurbish them.Then biuld a school in the NE and then close Webster.
It was a great day today in St joseph and I spent the majority of the day outside playing with my children.Then we enjoyed a cook out is was so nice.I hear Tuesdays weather is going to be great as well.In the low 60,s and sunny and I will be out voting NO because this is not going to fund our school and in 2 years or so they will be back asking for more and we will have to fight this fight again.Is it to much to ask the board and admin to roll up their sleves and work with the community to gain it trust back and work with them for a long term levy for the good of our school and children and teachers?It must be because they are willing to settle for this even though they have said it will still put the district in a financial distress position in a couple of years they must not want to work with us and do what is right.They are being a little arogant as someone else pointed out.I think they will get a clear message come Tuesday evening.Then they will have no choice but to listen and act.And if it does pass they need to remember in a couple of years when they have to ask for more that the voter will probably twll them no not till the levy expires and it will also affect the long range planning for biulding schools.
mm - you need not post everytime someone else posts, krazy said she was going to vote no and I respect that decision, you should let other voice their opinions on these posts once and a while, we have said enough -
goofball
Theres a educated comment Orliandor.Not
Sence I think I was communicating with Krazy_Kathy not you.But for some reason applesence you think you must personally attack me.I can handle it no big deal.
Falcon, just curious. To your knowledge, since you know Mr. Guenther, has he ever voted for a revenue issue of any kind in St. Joseph, Mo? Sense, since you were talking about an old building in the northeast section, why not move Neely there? And then, with the hole that is left at Neely, we will put up a brand new metal building.
It gets so tiring and I know others are tired to, nobody attacked you, thats over the top like many of your posts, you know your post were direct to luna because she said she was going to vote yes. You flood these posts with your own after somebody has a great argument for the levy or say anything positive about the district. Your hope is no one goes beyond your posts so that those won't be read. This form of hijacking is getting old. EVERYONE is very well aware of your position. I at least try to add new information or react to the story with a differant angle or information.
dillygent - naw keep Neely there - as to the tin building -tin buildling makes sense for this town, our motto is
Don't do anything right the first time
or
Get by with as less as you can
or
where mediocrity is below average
Sence dillygent1 posted a very interesting comment to you and your old school to the east proposal.It sounded like a plan.
As a response to you just like you pushing your view off on people about the citizens group as well right and to try to take the focus off of the SJSD/SJSB/TF(OCOFOD)group.
Sence it is to easy to tell who you are with the way you attack me only one other person ever did that right you would know.
You admit it get it getting by with less.This it what the school district is willing to with this levy isn't it?Are they not willing to accept less then they know they need?Are they not willing to fight for what they need?Or engage the community to earn trust back and then work with the community to get a levy passed that meets our schools needs?
Glad you see it they are as well willing to settle for less instead of work for what they need so they fit this mold as well.
Sense, congratulations. You showed discipline there. I was trying to bait you. Do you know Mr. Guenther? I just want to know if he ever voted for a revenue issue in this town?
"mm1967 November 1, 2009 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sence give it a rest we all know about your group you have told us about for about the hundredth time move on and get past it already.This group is not going to have anything to do with the levy failing the SJSB/SJSD IS RESPONSIBLE if the levy fails and them alone."
You know what they say about people in glass houses? ;)
mm - are you talking about the posts where I bring up the fact that teamsam is funding the $35,000 to the CAFT camppain, teamsam which is the funding arm of Sam Adams Allinance who created the American Majority who in there mission statement wants to end public schools and make them private. The fact that the oppostion only wants to push their own national polotical agenda and are the ones that hired Axium to print all those flies calling our own in St. Joe clowns. That they hold training meetings in Kansas City inviting citizens to get involvoed in local races, city councils and school boards so they may foward their agendas. That those oppose to the levy such as members of ACE seem to be following the American Majority playbook by the letter and could very well be part of this organization.
You mean those posts, I think I only posted it a couple of times.
dill - no I have never met the man or no anything about him. I really did not care for his remarks in this story and found it strange to say the least. Why would a business man care about how much a teacher is paid?
seems your baiting got mm going more than me - saw it a mile away - though tempted -
Sense, since you seem to know about the school district, what does happen if the issue passes and they need more money in two years? Does this stay into effect, are the two added together and in 5 years, the sunset expires again, and they have to ask for more money, and this arrangement just goes on ad nauseum, or what? I do not intend this as a "smart alek" question, as the other one was. It just sounds like it could very well create a mess every two or three years, which will be largely counterproductive. I am assuming that if this passes, they can still come back and ask for more money. Am I correct?
To be honest, I don't really know, I suspect they would not ask for more money until the five years come up, before that time, we will probably see a bond issue for schools, this would come after the community agrees on a plan. The only reason for coming back for more money would be if we recieve major state cuts.
One thing to keep on eye on and this goes for any stimulus is tax increases to keep programs that came from stimulus, everyone says they understand this but you can bet no one is going to want those positions to go away.
Ithink I have some brick and some wood in my home thank you of course there are the windows.
what??????????
what you do not read some one was talking about glass houses and stones.
I think someone found your comment telling me to give it a rest, well you know what they are telling you -
Taking shots at one another on here is not debate, and so that is best we can do? No rationale behind the argument, just threats and now resorting to "throwing people under the bus." I see how this is going to be argued in the next couple of days. I am guessing it won't be long before this one gets shut done either. Come Tuesday it is No for me. I stated my rationale behind hit and to date in my view not a single strong argument has convinced me the sunset clause is the way to go. There has been good debate with it and I have appreciated the debate. The 2 major groups spearing heading this have compromised thier causes in my view and the messages in both flyers address nothing of substance. There is no plan for future state or progression at all, only the "black cloud" scenario. I do not subscribe to that scenario. This direction is not what the district stated they needed back in April. In April I believed in that direction and voted for it. One of many core reasons I voted for it is because I did not believe in the sunset clause direction. I am not voting for that direction. And in my view, my vote is not supporting Axiom. If this fails, then my suggestion would be for the district to evaluate this entire process and bring something to the table that will committ to addressing the issues, solving them, and working to get buy in from all sectors of the community. I stand by what I stated in my editorial. Listen to public individuals on occasion and be open to other thought processes and not always follow a group's lead. As a citizen of this community neither group speaks for me. I am voting based on an independent decision and clear validations of my rationale behind it.
John, you sound like an intelligent person. I hope you will reconsider your vote. Our city will lose some of its best teachers should this levy fail.
Orliandor thank you for the comment. And even though I do not subscribe to a sunset clause approach, I do have high respect and regard for however you vote. What is important is everyone gets out and votes on this issue.
I do believe though we can do better and should argue for what is really needed for the long term. Part of my rationale is the sunset will just lock the status quo approach in for another five years, something this community has done for almost half a century. As to possibly losing the best teachers, I can certainly understand the concern, however, if some of those teachers decide to begin to look for other opportunities, if the school district really wants to keep them, my view is they will find other ways to offer a competitive package, there are always other options to pursue, if there was not, the district would have no one teaching. In another post on "Levy opposition group claims conflict of interest" I posted a question for the third time to see if anyone will answer it. No one has. It goes right to another core reason of my rationale.
John - just a snapshot of the community engagement you will see if the levy fails, like it -
sence
Are you saying you would not be open for community engagement as a whole?
I didn't say that at all - Im just pointing out what its going to be like -
Yes it going to hard at first but it something that must happen at some point do you not agree?