All I can say is what a waste of my tax dollars.

If this was truly a educational basis program, it wouldn't have to be renewed in three years.

glad the three who voted no saw through the emotionality and voted rationally and with good cause against this.

mikey, stobbs estimated that the program would not be paid for by the proposed amount..... it is going to cost the city.

Yeah Heritage...
You are right, it is such a good idea to NOT educate individuals, who sell or sever liqour, about alcohol laws. Education is over rated, we have gone this far without it, who really needs to know these things anyway, eh?
Right on! Way to go St. Jospehian.

Some store or bar owners already send their employees to a liquor laws class, and kudos to them. But the majority of the owners dont. It was a great idea and when people are aware of what it means to sell liquor to underage kids, they are less likely to do so.

Fortunately there were three members on the council with the ability to reason.
Establishments are already mandated by statutes for compliance and this will do little to change anything.
The city has far greater issues of priority needing attention.

We are not talking about mandates on establishments, we are talking about educating employees of liqour laws; not the same thing.

liderian, apparently you were not at the meeting when the gentleman stood and made the council aware of the free training program already in place and accessible in this area. furthermore, i am for training, just not the licensing and picture identification. ( i am not originally from st joseph, although i am proud to now reside here.)

the entire logic behind this was that the "licensing" of employees would give the ability to track the repeat offenders who continually sell to minors. i don't buy that. raise the fees to a much higher amount to those who sell to minors and create a database.

most underage drinkers steal their liquor from their parents, or get an over 21 year old to purchase it for them.

Pretty simple if you ask me if you sell alcohol to a minor you go to jail and be fined.Why do they need to know anything further except maybe how to tell a fake ID.Way fdor the city to make some revenue in a bad economy.Next they will be telling us when we can or cannot go to the bathroom.
Don't our citys elected officails have anything better to do?

Kansas City requires all bar employees and liquor vendors to be licensed. The "course" is a one-sheet questionnaire at a 35$ charge.

The initial fee's may be $15.00 however I would bet in one to five years the fee's will dramatically increase. In the meantime St. Joseph taxpayers will be forced to subsidize this program and the permit clerks will either

A: Have an increased workload.
B: Have an increased workload and additional permit clerks will be hired.

I say B will be the option that will happen resulting in more tax dollars wasted as well as an increase in fees to support the license program. The council members who voted no see the fiscal aspect and see the financial burden it will place on the city as well as the workers and businesses that ultimately pay for this program.

i was at the meeting. whoever your information is emanating from is mistaken, or has already decided that this measure is a good idea.

1) hyvee has "in house" training.

2) the concern from the company was not the expense, it was the added oversight, since these photo identifications will not expire on the same date. the company could be held liable for simply missing an expiration date.

3) at the present hyvee doesn't even allow minors to handle any alcohol, even cooking wine. i have often waited to have an older cashier/bagger come to complete checkout. i always notify the cashier when i start through the line and put my liquor in the last so as not to hold up the line.

4) hyvee sells more alcohol by volume than any other retail outlet in the city,( according to the testimony last night) and they stand to have the most impact from yet another layer of administration.

5) as to the city employees saying they had no problem with the extra work load. can you say Job Security? also, city manager cappel objected originally to this idea on the grounds that it would create a need for additional personnel to administer. he changed his mind......

get your facts straight.

I say take advantage of the free training and call it a day. Business don't need more hoops to jump through.

stjoemikey - where do you think grants come from, the sky? It is tax dollars.

All that was accomplished at last nights meeting was the product of a horse and pony show. All that will come out of this new ordinance will be more bureaucracy and headache for business owners. Now any business looking to locate in St Joseph will have to add this expense and headache to the equation. At the end of the day, no children will have been saved. Creating a bureaucracy in the name of saving a life is asinine. I am frustrated at the 6 Council Members who bought into this whole scam. The Youth Alliance members can now sleep at night thinking that they saved a life even though they didn't. No matter how hard you all try to prevent it, people will die on your watch. This is a good example of what is wrong with politics in America today. Put together a B/S campaign, show up in force and then have people tell sob stories that vindicate their side. Then the weak politician buys into it. What a bunch of fools!

mikey, I was at the meeting. You are spreading innuendo and second hand information...... apparently from someone who is in agreement with this folly.

I'm not sure this will do any real good, but for some reason, I am for it.

Liderien - Beg to differ; do you think for one instance any reputable individual or company is going to jeopardize their liquor license by just throwing anyone behind the counter without ensuring they know what is and is not permissible.
The new requirement is not going to change how those doing the selling conduct themselves. If they are diligent now they will remain that way and if they run a haphazard operation that is not going to change either.
Just like anything else, when you want to have laws obeyed it takes "enforcement".

That's all we need to have some silly law drive businesses out of town and loses jobs because of it.I can also tell you if young people want to get beer and alcohol they are going to get it.I remember when I was a 17 and 18and I am sure our city elected offical did as well and I know a we all did because we were told no.I also remember Kansas serving at the age of 18 and missouri being 21 what do you think we did at 18. Maybe this next generation is less responsible but I think you are taking things to far and this will hurt the business community.Look we have one above already saying they will not longer shop at hyvee.What the heck is our world coming to full of goverment control?

Instead of requiring a license to serve alcohol, why not require a special license to drink alcohol?

I am just curious as to what good this license does? In what way does paying fifteen bucks to some sham cardmaking organization benefit anyone? it costs money ot be "trained" on "if they are over twenty one, serve. If not, don't". I could've told you that for free. I just did! A gennus I am!

It would also be nice if the City could impose an additional tax on liquor sold within the city limits.

:P

How about a coffee tax. And a liscense to eat donuts.

This is, Without a Doubt, the STUPIDEST Law ever passed, Hands Down ! Next we will have Toll Booths at Stop Lights !
Why dabble with such STUPID stuff when there is so much WORSE things to be addressed, like so many streets with holes that will completely swallow up a motorcycle, or turn over a small car. And there are cars that fly down Elizabeth Street in excess of 50mph,,, it's a 25mph Zone, it's Close to Hosea School, school children Walk on Elizabeth Street EVERY Day, and Most of it has NO Side Walks, but lets License people to sell liquor.. UN-Freaking-Believable !!!

This law is a joke. It is in every other place that has it and the residents will tell you that. Ultimately it boils down to responsibility. You can go through the motions, pay your $15, get your ID (what a joke), and do the class. Whatever. Someone said earlier that out of 500 that took this free class only 2 failed a compliance check (I believe). That means nothing. Not all 500 participated in the compliance check. Maybe only 4 did? Thats not a very good percentage is it? I believe if you want to curtail underage drinking it starts with the parents. They are ultimately responsible for their kids until age 18, and further if they are living under the same roof. But if you really want to curtail it, then make stiffer penalties for the fools who do sell to the underage, as well as the parents who condone it. I came from a town where they threw the book at those people. I've lived here two years and I don't even know what the penalty is for serving a minor. Put a billboard on Belt and Frederick saying if you serve, sell, or provide to a minor then expect a $1000, $2000 fine or whatever it is as well as potential jail time. I believe there is a billboard on the Belt that says it best tho. And the point is that the most common place kids get alcohol is in their parents refrigerator. When I was underage I sure as hell wasn't going into a Hy-Vee or a restaurant to try and buy it myself or pay $3 a beer.
That was just a waste of time.

Is it not odd also that they mentioned that Hy-Vee had not been sighted for selling to minors but failed to mentioned that the girl that did the sting for the police that hit the other establishments in town, was a sister to a girl that works for Hy-Vee. She was not sent in hy-Vee because everyone there knows her and if they did send someone in dont you think she would have that knowledge and inform them if they were sending in someone else. Yep, politics at its finest...lmao

Folks as someone who has worked in restraunts, let me tell you this something that is needed. Many states not cities now require bartenders and wait staff to partake in these types of programs and become licenced. They help those of us that serve booze to know the laws, spot fake id's, and how to handle certain situations. Many times a business and/or server can be held libale under the law if they overserve and individual and causes injury or death to the individual or if they drive after. I understand that people need to be responsable for their actions but people who sell the booze need to share some responsabilty which in some cases dose not happen. $15 is chump change to help someone do their job. I support the council on their decission and applaud them for tanking a stance on this issue. The benifits of this program far out weight the negative comments some have left here so far. It's time that we bring ourselfs up to par with other cities. I only wish the state would take up the matter and follow the same decission as our council. As far as the renewal of the licences, how many jobs don't have repeat training to keep their employess knowledgeable?

How about a coffee tax? Coffee really does not seem to cost the city or the residents in the same manner that alcohol does. Alcohol carrys a huge expense to the community.

And a license to eat donuts, hahahahaha, look around this town, that would start a revolt!

"Excuse me sir, I am a licensed donut vendor and you appear to of had more than one too many donuts in your life....."

"and the women was arrested at 19th and Charles as she tried to purchase illegal donuts....."

Lets see our young people at the age of 18 can serve in the armed forces and go to war and die for you,they can vote at 18.Enough said.

Sarah, you hit the nail on the head with Stjoemikey. I'm pretty sure he's from the Youth Alliance and his position is funded by the same grant providing funding for this training. The grant is due to expire in a year and he probably needs to show that he has done something with the grant (passed local legislation, decreased underage drinking, etc.) in order for the funding to be reinstated. He's spreading this propaganda because his job is on the line. But this is just "what I've heard."

"mikey, I was at the meeting. You are spreading innuendo and second hand information...... apparently from someone who is in agreement with this folly."

Heritage...you have no clue of what you are talking about. If you only knew.
Anyone who sees this as stupid obviously does not understand the repercussions of underage drinking. Stricter laws and fines for selling underage is not the answer. Most people lose their job when they get busted as it is and coupled with a fine. The point of it is, most clerks do not understand the importance of carding, and they dont care simply because they are lazy. I know people who go on those raids and how easy it is for clerks to sell and not care. Yes young people get it from parents and relatives, but the raid also includes home parties and the like.
Getting a license is not a big deal and for $15.00...can you find anything else to gripe about...seriously!

as i attend most council meetings i have a fairly good grasp of the process, and i can sure as heck tell you that another layer of government in our lives is just...... another layer.

the council has far more pressing issues before them.

per your comment about clerks being LAZY and not caring, i hardly think those who you characterize in this fashion ( read.... JUDGE) will become industrious and sympatico because of a class. give me shelter.

as for my understanding of alcohol and its harmful effects, you are barking up the wrong tree. i have very personal experience with alcoholism...... and i don't see anything in the big book which advocates anything but personal responsibility.

The fact that you accuse mikey for spreading innuendo and second hand information...is that not judging? Speak for yourself first.
It doesnt matter what kind of "grasp" you have on the process...not relevent. We are not talking about the process of a council meeting. WOW
The council has what more pressing issues? Like getting along and not acting like a bunch of children? Boy you have it right there.
The only shelter you need is from your own self preservation and ego. Your attitdue is one of superiority and righteousness...a know it all.
Like I said before...if you only knew who you were talking to (and I dont mean me)you would be embarrassed. But then again maybe not...you might find some excuse to justify yourself anyway. Good luck to you Sarah.

The fees may start out at 15 bucks but mark my words after they realize how much this is really costing it will go up. This is nothing but a Tree Hugging, Politically Correct, and Bureaucratic BS restriction.

Hey Fantome. Tell me how much it costs to get a copy of a criminla record check and how long has it been at that rate? How about finding out how much it costs to get fingerpritned for a job? The fees are laughable...doubt this fee will go up much. This town wants cadillac services on a Ford Pinto budget

since mikey has often posted his email address, i will be happy to contact him personally.

have a nice day, liderian. it is beautiful outside!!!!!

I dont know Mikey so feel free.

LideriEn

"if you only knew who you were talking to (and I dont mean me)you would be embarrassed. "

i don't know you, either, since you choose to post only as "leader".

Liderien - Beg to differ; do you think for one instance any reputable individual or company is going to jeopardize their liquor license by just throwing anyone behind the counter without ensuring they know what is and is not permissible.
The new requirement is not going to change how those doing the selling conduct themselves. If they are diligent now they will remain that way and if they run a haphazard operation that is not going to change either.
Just like anything else, when you want to have laws obeyed it takes "enforcement".

There are a lot more establishments that are not.

As someone who has been through the free course while it was a little bit informative, its not gonna make a difference. They go over some fake id, very little laws concerning alcohol sales, & tell you about how they do compliance checks.

Hey StJoeMoe imagine a world where noone used tobacco or consumed alchohol think unemployment is bad now.Then they would have to issue liscenses for other things and tax other things in order to increase revenue, and with no dwi's something else would have to be made illegal to write tickets for and have road checks for maybe instead of dwi it will be dwos (driving while on snickers). MY point is taxation of something just because you don't approve of it is not the answer. I don't think yet another liscense is but hey if it helps a little great just don't expect to much. And some of the smaller bars might get busy and put a regular behind the counter to help out for a bit and won't be able to do that with this liscense unless the regular has one.

Just another JOKE!!! Let me pay to have a job.

Liderien - So "your" point? "There are a lot more establishments that are not."

If they are not working to be compliant under current regulations this added requirement will not change their conduct. The solution is enforcement measures as requiring someone to have a license will still not equate into compliance.