I think I can ssum up most of the comments that will be left about happened by saying..... REALLY WTF???

Why are police allowed to take the cruiser home with them?
Do we have a cruiser for EVERY officer ? There should only be 1 cruiser for every 3 Officers (3 shifts) with a few for spares, THEN the weapons would not have been left un-attended for a 16 hour period !
NOW you have allowed 2 Assault Rifles (Probably FULLY AUTOMATIC) get into the hands of Criminals. WAY TO GO !!!
What did THAT Cost us, we KNOW that the City is Self
Insured ? Any Reward? The 2 rifles are probably worth $7,000.00, not counting the Flash Bang ! PRAY that no one gets killed with them.

Keep an agent at Pigeon Hill, someone will be deer hunting with them This weekend so I would bet that they will be down there at some point, looking at accuracy, Also Check out ALL of the ammo sales sites within 50 miles, including the Re-Loader down by pigeon hill, I Think that you have to show I.D. to buy this kind of ammo so get a list of names on ALL purchases,also consider that they MAY be disguised with cammo covers. And you MAY want to call in BATF and Homeland Security, since the weapons in question are Assault weapons, and have Game Wardens Keep an eye out during fire arms season Also. I will bet that you have already got all of these angles covered but just in case you don't,, GOOD LUCK !

Would you consider a STING ? I have an idea !

This is great we have these types of weapons in the hands of the unknown and a bullet proof vest as well.Other then we know they are thiefs.Hopefully they do not get into the wrong peoples hands.They are asking for the publics help but they are not giving a descrition of the suspects?
I would make it a policy that all police vehicles unmarked or marked are kept at the station not at their homes.This is not against the officers but look what has happened deadly weapons in the hands of the unknown.

Unfortunate, but other than the grenade all those items are available for sale retail anyway. It's not like someone copped a bottle of anthrax or a small tactical nuke. No need to get a case of the vapors over it. The situation does make the police department look foolish. Policy may be reexamined after this.

Steve---WHAT AN IDIOT!!! The 2 rifles are semi-auto's, can be purchased at $900 at department price. Ammo is common 223 which everyone sells, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO EVEN THINK OF STARTING AN INVESTIGATION. Its obvious you are anti law enforcement, please do comment again so we all can have more laughs here.

These weapons are able to be purchased but the fact remains when they are purchased they know who has them and law abidding citizens are buying them not criminals who are stealing and god only knows what they actually will do with them or whoevers hand they get into will do with them or if and how many might be killed with them. Think about that for a minute.
I do not think we need to be calling people names over this issue.But the fact remains like I said above.

Policy will not be re-examined and I'll tell you why.

When one of the Strike Force officers left the keys in his Cherokee, his vehicle was robbed as well. Pistols, assault rifles and even some Strike Force t-shirts (parting gift, I assume).

Nothing happened to the officer. Nothing happened to policy.

The officer claimed someone entered his home, removed the keys from his nightstand next to his bed while he was asleep, then moved the vehicle out of the garage, then shut the garage door and left the vehicle in the driveway while taking the contents.

Yeah - that's the kinda BS story you get from the street scum.

I don't even know why a cruiser would have 2 AR-15's. Crazy. Why don't we give them rocket launchers and scud missiles while we're at it? I mean, it's a crazy world out there right? We've got to have our officers armed to the friggin' teeth.

Oh, I see the "anti-law enforcement identifying" crowd has made it here.

Street Scum Strikes again! They should collect all these meth heads and train them for military action over in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan. They seem to be brave and fearless when it comes to getting their fix. This is a bigger problem than you know. These people are the real walking dead. Meth users are the worst kind of human scum! But are darn good thieves.

hate to inform you steve there is no rifle hunting at the hill. only bow and muzzeloaders. i've hunted deer most of my adult life both gun and bow. i've seen no one with a 223 cal. ar15 shooting deer. not to say it isn't done but not to my knowledge.

I will make another comment. An AR-15 in .223 is a very poor weapon for urban use. It has way too much range in case of misses. I mean really, it has a point blank range of nearly 400 yards. I can think of NO circumstance where an officer needs to make a 400 yard shot. But if he misses a target he can kill your kid at 400 yards. This all goes back to the paramilitarization of the police forces all across America. THAT is a policy that needs to be reexamined nationwide.

this is probably a silly question, but were all the weapons actually sjpd issue?

Well spoken, WIJG. Absolutely no need for these damn things in the cars, let alone two of them.

I'm not aware of officers being able to provide their own rifles. I know you can carry your own pistol if you qualify with it, but I believe all rifles are SJPD issue.

If not, I know they DO issue rifles.

An MP-5 is a much better choice for an urban environment and the ammunition is much cheaper. On the flip-side, they are full-auto capable.

If we can't have them I don't know why the cops should have them. Especially if we're just parking these damn cars on the streets.

Just permanently mount a .50 cal machine gun on top of the cruisers and call it a day. While we're at it, let's just issue them fatigues. Then we can re-organize the department and train ammunition specialists, engineers, communications specialists, etc.

Hey - why don't we just make them US soldiers?

why are patrolmen taking cars home for in the first place. don't they tell us to keep our weapons in a secure place in the first place. not in a trunk where there easly broken into. if their cars are like my neighbors just break the glass and push button for trunk inside the car.

just wondering,the guns should be left at the police station when not being used on duty.

Unstated in the article, but I would assume it was a supervisor that had the car at home. By rank and responsibility, they have more need of the kind of flexibility that having a issued vehicle at their disposal gives them due to the fact they are on call. As I said, this is an assumption on my part.

Remember this when the city ask for a tax increase. If you drive around town at all you will see many houses with patrol cars parked there all night, i have even seen one in Savannah where a officer lives, he drives a patrol car home every night who pays for that gas? I believe none of them should be able to drive a patrol car home this has to cost the tax payers alot of money for gas & upkeep. Could someone please find out why officers are allowed to do this especially living in Savannah?

There is a police car parked on Beechwood in Deer Park for days at a time without ever being moved, is it also loaded with weapons? There needs to be some safety measures in place about not leaving weapons in the cars while parked for an extended time. Is there no alarms on these cars? With the distruction of evidence a few weeks ago and now this, is there needs to be a review of the SJPD's standard operating practices ASAP.

Only in Mayberry...
Have they completed an internal investigation yet or have they concluded it "couldn't" be one of their own?

heritage_sarahhochschwender - The Colt AR-15 was the officer's personal property. The rest belonged to the St. Joseph Police Department.

i bet ACORN did it..... just sayin . . .
ahhha
all kidding aside.... unmarked cars are just that - unmarked.... with tinted windows, right? how did they know what was in the car? oh wait... with the squad they have now i bet the "officer" was bragging and showing everyone in his neighborhood how important he was....wait was this strong's car?

I would really like some answers from our police dept on what changes they will be making to insure the public this will not happen again.These weapons could be kept in the house when they are not on duty and taken out when needed.Now we have weapons in the hands of the unknow and who knows what they will be used for or if anyone will be hurt with them or even killed by them.These weapons need to found and policy's need to be cahnged for this doesn't happen again.If it is true this car sat there for several days I would ask why if he did not work over the weekend that is only 2 days not several.I know that the people stealling them was wrong but this is unacceptable that these weapons were left there for several days.Come on a unmarked police car sticks out like a sore thumb,they have certain distictions that make them noticable.

For those of you who have forgotten- there was an officer killed 11 years ago this month. Crime does HAPPEN in our town. That is why the police have the weapons that they do. To question this is just idiocy.

it was because of the officer being killed that we reverted to these kinds of weapons. before that we were out gunned.now they have a fighting chance, of course they cant have them stolen from them to be able to us when needed.

Proudmomof2,
I remember very clearlly when this officer was killed and it was a very bad day for our community.I have no problem with the officers having these weapons but if the vehicle is going to sit at their home over the weekend or for several days they need to remove the weapons from the vehicle till they either are called or return to work.I rea;;y do not think it is to hard to remove something from your trunk of your car.Now these weapons could be in the hand of killers or in the hands of people who will use them in other crimes.

proudmom, an AR-15 in .223 caliber is not the proper weapon for an urban setting. Officer Arn was ambushed, he was not outgunned. The threat by Lattin was ended with a .45 handgun.
Please do not call idiocy when you do not know what you are talking about.

donaldo, you are a veteran. You used nearly the very rifle under discussion. Do you think an AR-15 is an appropriate urban weapon?

I doubt the cars have alarms... Probably should, but hey they leave their cars running at gas stations with windows down for twenty or thirty minutes at a time. Newer cars have locks where you can lock the trunk release with your key, might be useful to look at. Even though you can buy weapons such as these I doubt these people would pass the background checks to do so. That many weapons and a vest they could do something pretty serious.

If a criminal really wants a weapon, they can get one, it does not matter where it comes from. This is why a gun ban will not work in this country. If you ban people carrying guns in this country, than you will only have criminals carrying guns. It is is every American Citizen's right to own and bear arms in this country. 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. I think we also have a right to protect ourselves, and our property.

trish,
No one is talking about taking people right to bear arms away what is being discussed is we have these weapons of a police officer on the street in the hands of the unknow.And you are right if criminals want weapons they will get them no matter what.It does matter where these came from because it could have been prevented.These weapons should have not been left in the vehicle that was parked for days.

Assuming the theiving little buggers aren't too bright, decided to try out the bullet-proof vest to make sure it works and had a buddy shhot him...if it failed could the stupid theives sue the sjpd?
Sorry, just wondering.

One person says why do the police need these wepons, and another says you can buy these guns with ease at retail.LMAO

Thenfixit,

You can buy an AK-47 too. You think we need cops running around with AK-47's in their car?

You can buy a damned deer rifle at Walmart - does that mean the muzzle velocity and slug caliber is conducive to urban "peacekeeping" environments?

Do you think before you speak?

The 7K quote listed above is flat out wrong. You can buy a loaded to bear AR-15 in the 1-1500k range.

Actually in reference to Officer Arn being killed. The scum bag was killed with a .45 cal handgun. The shot was from about 45 yards. Ill bet any amount that under fire with bullets flying around, 9 out of 10 people could never make that shot. And if you remember right, none of the officers could return fire at the scumg bag that killed Officer Arn, because they were pinned down by his weapon fire.
Until that day all they carried was their sidearms and a shotgun loaded with buckshot. Any person that has a clue about guns can tell you that a shotguns effective range is only about 30 yards with that ammo.
That is why they are given AR-15 rifles, so they can effectivly handle an active shooter situation if needed.
Im also 100% sure they are given extensive training and have to requalify every couple months with the guns.
That way they can be accurate with the rifles they are given

safd, think about what you just wrote. If none of the officers could return fire, who shot the perp? You seem to be very opinionated on the subject. Do you think .223 is a proper caliber for urban police work?

Hey WhoisJohnGalt,

I knew Officer Arn very well, I also know the Officer that shot the piece of trash that blind sided my friend. He put his very own life in danger to take a shot of a lifetime and that's exactly what it is, a shot of a lifetime. There aren't many people that would even attempt to make that shot let alone be successful with it. So I will ask you your own ?? do you think .223 is the proper caliber to be able to shoot a crazed gunman, whacked out on dope, from a reasonably safe distance? all while he is shooting at you and everyone else with the same caliber or maybe something bigger. Personally I believe you are the type of person who would bring a knife to a gun fight and all i will say is
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE.

WhoisJohnGalt,
As a current law enforcement officer my opinion is that the .223 is an excellent choice for urban police work.
Way before an officer is allowed to carry a rifle on duty, they are expected to qualify with the weapon and then continue to be trained and qualify many times a year.
The ultimate decision weather or not to pull the rifle or shotgun while on duty is a great one to say the least. It greatly depends on the overall circumstances of the call.
There are many situations where its more appropriate to pull the shotgun VS rifle.
Most agencies issue shotguns with steel buckshot with 9 steel pellets for duty. The effective range of the shotgun reduces greatly after about 25-30 yds.
Law Enforcement is held accountable for EVERY round that exits the end of the barrel. I personally would rather be accurate with my rifle and have to account for 1 bullet, as apposed to 9 steel pellets that spread out everywhere after 30yds.
Will the .223 penetrate a wall... yes it will. But so will any other weapon the officers carry. Thats why we recieve so much weapon training. That way we know what the weapon is capable of and what they need to consider before pulling the weapon on a call.

Plus I would rather be able to take a longer shot and know that its a very capable shot with my weapon of choice as opposed to not having the proper tool to handle the situation at hand.

So in the spirit of good conversation, what is your opinion?

safd, my opinion and reasoning are previously stated in this thread. Look at Nov 11 9:23 am post.

JBaldy, have you bothered to read anything I have written in this thread? I've been around the block some. I know how dangerous the .223 is, I carried one for years. I feel no need for "chest thumping". I've been to the mountain and seen the varmint.

safd,

Thank you for the work you do day in and day out. Thank you for keeping us safe!!

I am a retired L.E.O. there are two reasons for a .223 Caliber weapon used in an urban setting first is well stated pinpoint accuracy. Second is a lesson LAPD tuaght us all and thats the need for weapons that officers have readily access to that will defeat body armor. An Mp5 is a fine tactical weapon as is a shotgun but neither will pierce full body armor. Also as one who was there when Mr Latin met his end he was armed with a SKS assault rifle with two 50 rd drums along with various handguns and pipebombs.

I've always supported law enforcement carrying .223 and other forms of weaponry - especially in today's society. It's a neccesity when criminals have the weapons they do today. It used to be items such as these along with body armor were only available to the military and the law. That is no longer the case and we should arm our law enforcement to the hilt in order to be prepared for these threats - and pay for copious amounts of ammunition so they can get the range time and proper training. From the officers and former officers that have posted it sounds solid this is the case.

But that debate is taking away from the initial post. These weapons are now in the hands of probably untrained criminals and the damage they can potentially do is now out there in society. Can criminals get these weapons elsewhere? Sure. Is there always a danger of this type out there? Of course.

At least LE is now aware they are on the street. I'm sure the serial #s are known. Hopefully this has shed light on poor practices and changes implemented to prevent it from ever happening again.

Hey liberty. Do you know what the hell you are talking about.

safd, When did LE switch from lead shot to steel shot? Any particular reason given? If your statement is correct, steel shot is harder and lighter than lead which holds its pattern tighter leading to fewer stray pellets. True, a .223 is only one projectile to worry about, but what about slugs? Also no matter what the training for officers you can't teach them everything.

Why would you select a .223 to kill a cow? If you have a shotgun with buckshot (hopefully a slug), a .40 cal or a .223, which would you choose? I saw this happen one night in the south end. Took MANY shots from the .223 to bring the cow down finally. Do they not know ballistics, knockdown power or shot placement?

I'd imagine it would be about shot placement. A PROPERLY placed .223 would take a cow down effectively.

And a PROPERLY place .17HMR will take down an elephant.

I'd like to see that shot. .17 HMR has normally been limited to small game. I'd also be curious as to what design of .17 HMR would be utilized?

Above one thing else Police officers are one thing "human" they are not mindless ,infallable robots they try to do the best with what they have ,with who they are ,people just like everyone else

I got tired of reading all the stupid comments. Point is.. Yes, this is a bad situation..Has anyone seen the Hollywood bank robbery where the suspects were wearing body armor and the police were literally out gunned...armor is not hard to get ahold of. Lets arm a police with non-washable paintballs instead of rifles because rifles rounds travel too far...really??
If you dont know the facts of the case or what you are talking about...steve_o...you really make yourself sound very stupid and uneducated.
Point is...YES there are thing that need fixed...YES these items should have been better secured...YES this is a bad situation...and YES these items need found regardless of the reward amount.
Everyone wants to bash our police and criticize them for any certain situation until they need them for something. I wish our police were as perfect as these people.
Police are human, and police need our support as much as we need theirs. We are all human and this is our community.
-GETaCLUE-

I would just like a update on if they have gotten any closer to recovering these weapons and arresting the thiefs.

Thanks Cyote, but you are mis-informed and know nothing about what the right (or Wrong) people would pay for these firearms, along with the vests, and you know NOTHING about Me, like I have found out about YOU, since your Rude Post.
I have worked with some of the BEST detectives SJPD ever employed, and although they are retired now,like me, it STILL counts. By the way, oh never mind, I'll keep your secret!

stjoecitizen,
Thank You very much for your post!

TrappinFool,
Im not for sure as to when depts switched from lead shot to buckshot. I was certified in the academy with slugs and buckshot. As long as Ive been around Law Enforcement bucshot is all I have known them to carry. Im sure that some depts do carry slugs. We only qualified out to 25 yds with buckshot and was taught that was pretty much the max range to utilize that type of ammo. We qualified with slugs at 50 yds.
I have always been taught and drilled into my brain SHOT PLACEMENT since my father taught me to shoot at a young age. That still was taught to me in the academy. We spent countless hrs shooting the FATS machine to teach us shot placement and when to and not to fire our weapons.

As far as your cow statement, I dont want to monday morning quarterback the situation. Im not sure that i would have shot the cow inside the city limits due to a HUGE number of factors. If I needed to then I would, but I would try every possible alternative before firing my weapon at the cow. If i was forced to shoot the animal, I would probably have used my shotgun and shot the cow in the head.

Have a good day everyone

How about that update SJPD have you all found these weapons and the thiefs that took them or are they still on the streets of St Joseph to commit crimes toward the community?It seems pretty bad that we cannot get updates to this issue as citizens of this community.

I agree with mm 1967 how about the updates?

I guess update are out of the question.We have had officers on here posting and they cannot answer a simple question have these weapons been found and have the people responsible for stealing them been arrested?Or are these weapons still on the street to possibly harm inocent people and family's.It's pretty damn bad we cannot get one of these guys to answer a simple question.How about it safd ot seems as if you work there so what's the update?

Apparently the SJPD members are more concerned with saving face than community service.

Lots of space talking about how no one made a mistake, how the public has been foolish for their outcry (even though it resulted in apparent policy change), and how we, as citizens, have no idea the kind of stress these guys go through.

Boo-freakin'-hoo. Deal with it or find a new line of work. You can become a cop for any number of reasons but those reasons should never include 1). to become rich or, 2). to gain respect.

Quit trying to get us to feel sorry for you or respect you more. How about an update on this?

Liberty or Death,

What do you do for your community or country? Everyone knows cops don't make nearly enough money. There are waitresses who make more then our police. I have done ride alongs with the city police during midnights and evening shifts. There are horrible people in this city, and to see all the death and carnage these officers see are astonishing. It looks like a reward has been released on this, so... I would assume no one has been charged with this incident.
GETaCLUE