When loft apartments brought the former Mead building back to life, Mayor Ken Shearin promised to restore a Christmas tradition.
Santa Claus and his reindeer would once again provide a beacon of Christmas cheer shining across the blue-collar Mitchell Park neighborhood.
A skyward glance shows that the mayor's wish remains unfulfilled. The only lights in the sky come from the windows of the neighborhood's newest residents.
Those who crave a bit of Christmas nostalgia can now find the old Mead Santa Claus at the top of the Krug Park bowl tonight through January. With a little extra money, city parks superintendent Jeff Atkins would've suspended Santa and his reindeer over the lagoon.
"We put it up exactly the way it was on the old Mead Building. We used the old light standards and everything," Mr. Atkins said.
According to the mayor, that's where the Mead Santa Claus will stay. That doesn't mean he has given up on his dream. On the contrary, it's gotten bigger.
The mayor now wants to build a new Santa Claus with nine reindeer and a sleigh soaring into the Mitchell Park sky.
"It will be a stainless steel, welded, piece of art bigger than the old one was," Mr. Shearin said.
The mayor has enlisted the help of Dennis Grable, who he calls "the best man with a blowtorch and a piece of metal in this city." Electric wiring will flow through the new reindeer, so instead or relying on a spotlight, the display will light itself, with Rudolph's red nose at the front of the line.
Mr. Shearin said the owners of the former Mead Building - now known as Mitchell Park Plaza - were willing to pay half the cost of the new display. The mayor hopes the city, local businesses, private citizens, or even Mead alumni can help raise the remaining amount - roughly $26,000.
"I want to have a different person or business sponsor each reindeer and the sleigh," Mr. Shearin said. "If we can find local people to support this, we'll have it up next year."
Clinton Thomas can be reached
at clintonthomas@npgco.com.
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biggieroth says...
Really? I think the mayor has way too much time on his hands.
November 27, 2009 at 6:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LibertyOrDeath says...
You'll be thinking that when there is nothing but grief and poverty all around you.
People don't understand - this situation we're in isn't getting better ANY time soon. It's going to get worse and it's got a long way to go before it gets better.
You know - Phil Welch was built during the great depression.
Sometimes these things can be a symbol that people haven't given up. They still have hope.
As long as the truth is present, I see no problem with instilling some hope in people now and in the future.
I think it's a great idea.
I'll be our troops could use a morale boost - what's wrong with helping ourselves to a little boost? The key is, it has to remain in perspective. A boost without the truth is false hope. Having a ray of light (no pun intended) along with a heavy dose of reality is what has fueled folks in the past to keep on keeping on. To keep pushing ahead and not settling for complacency.
I believe it is this quality that led us through the fight for our independence as well as the Great Depression. The American people are a virtuous people, but they have to have a stake in the pot.
I have no doubts seeing Santa soaring over the Mead building once again will, as silly as it may sound, inspire hope and determination that one day things will be better not by circumstance, but by action.
November 27, 2009 at 7:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LibertyOrDeath says...
So I'd like to kind of make a segway here...
Does anyone reading this know anyone who works at Atchison Casting?
I know 3 different people that work there, none of them know each other. 2 of them swear to everything that is holy that they are producing battle components for the United States military. The other says he has heard about it but does not work in production so he is uncertain.
My sources tell me this has been going on for about a month now. By the way, this came up in conversation with one of these people, then I called the other 2.
Would people be interested in knowing if this was the case?
November 27, 2009 at 8:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
drbjr says...
LOD, I recall they used to make the frame or chassis for tanks. If they are ... great!
November 27, 2009 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LibertyOrDeath says...
I thought the company had taken a new direction, many new directions, since the mid-90's.
There ties to Rockwell Industries was supposedly pretty much gone.
In any case, I think it would be news of interest in a time of massive unemployment and multiple international war efforts.
November 27, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
i thought the reason the original display could not be returned to the mead building was a lack of space..........
November 27, 2009 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
i absolutely want to point out that one of the greatest gifts this community has gained is that there are LIGHTS in the WINDOWS of the mead building once again......a resurrection of a defunct factory turned into an asset is something to rejoice in.
November 27, 2009 at 10:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
suzyQ says...
I'm happy about the display, I always excitedly went to see it as a kid and I would like my kids to see it too.
Thanks!
And I would think it great if the Mead building also had a new one.
November 27, 2009 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shenty says...
Right, I am sure Mead Alumni will jump right on the idea of helping out with that, after all, they lost their jobs and half of them are still struggling to regain financial stability.
November 27, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joz1984 says...
It seems along the lines of refurbishing downtown and the mall to me. Kind of a "well it doesn't work let's make it bigger and spend a lot of money and hope it works. Seems there could be something better to spend 50 grand on right now. I enjoy seeing a gigantic lighted sculpture as much as anyone but it seems that was a symbol of the mead building that once was and is no longer. It seems people of this town like to focus on the past just a little to much, its the same with downtown... It will never be the same as it was.
November 27, 2009 at 1:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sense says...
I don't understand the logic of this. The Mead building is no longer the Mead buidind and asking people whose jobs were given to another community to pay for this is, well, ill advised.
Why would the city who is cutting back on things such as library hours want to pay to build Christmas decorations and place it on a private building? Why would a business sponser it? How are they going to get credit for it?
Krug park is great and the display at the park is wonderful for all to see. It would be nice for the display to be on the Mead building, so would having Mead still here and downtown filled with retail shopes with their window decorated with Holiday displays and people walking downtown shopping, but, it's not 1958 anymore.
November 27, 2009 at 6:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Leonie says...
Ken Shearin will say any freaking thing just to hear the sound of his own voice. This is just nonsense. He had no right or reason to make a promise about private property and it should end right here and now. We have 2 wonderful public Christmas displays in Hyde and Krug Parks-both wonderful places full of excellent childhood memories for my family and your families, is that not enough?
In the grand scheme of things $26 or even $52K is not a lot of money, but it is just not there, lying around, waiting to be spent, so give it up Kenny. If you can come up with $26000, create a Mead Santa Lights Memorial Scholarship-give the kids something they can use to make a life for themselves. Or add it into the city funds or just about anything else. Or, if you are really feeling kind and merciful to the people of St Joe, collect the $26K and then embezzle it and run off somewhere that we could never find you again-we probably wouldn't even try!
November 27, 2009 at 8:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joz1984 says...
The real question is 50 grand for something that will be used one month a year and if its going to be bigger and heavier how are you going to get it up and down and where are you planning on storing it
November 27, 2009 at 9:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justme says...
Oh my goodness I can think of so many things that would be better served by $52,000. Santa? You gotta be kidding me! :P Even $26,000. That's just ridiculous. And the Mayor thinks Santa is a worthy cause to donate even a portion of city funds to? I thought we were in a recession here! :P
November 27, 2009 at 11:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
Well Ken, sounds like it's a good thing you didn't try to do this thing totally from donations, these people tore you a New one. Personally I LIKE the Idea. Call me on my Cell and I'll get a donation point set up,, Then it wont cost ANYBODY anything, unless they WANT it to.
Remember to keep CHRIST, in CHRISTMAS and let go of the Hostility !
November 28, 2009 at 2:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LibertyOrDeath says...
Wow, what a nice practicing Muslim Fantome is.
Is putting down others part of your Islamic teachings? You sound like just another righteous Christian.
November 28, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Leonie says...
Steve O, how is putting up a giant metal santa keeping Christ in Christmas? And what does it have to do with this anyway?
November 28, 2009 at 9:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
LOD, The Holiday of Christmas IS a celebration of the Birth of Christ, NOT the birth of X, or Mr. Happy Holiday. I am a Christian and I have NO axe to grind with Muslims, and because I am not Muslim, when one of their Holidays comes along, I may not Celebrate it, but I will respect it. And I will not try to Change it into something that it IS NOT. ALL I ask of people of different faiths is to either Respect My Holiday or ignore it, but don't try to change it. And Leonie, any time you talk about ANYTHING Christmas, you are speaking about JESUS CHRIST'S Birthday, all I ask is Keep it that way
and Don't call it X-Mas, or Happy Holiday, and call it what it IS,, CHRISTMAS, and that includes CHRISTMAS decorations.
GOD Bless You
November 28, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joz1984 says...
Keep christ in christmas
I don't see how this planned scene will keep christ in christmas is there going to be a gigantic stainless steel lighted jesus next to this sleigh. Christmas lost christ a long time ago and has been replaced with greed, crap like this huge santa plan, and people fighting in stores for the years hottest junk. But they'll be in church christmas eve and christmas as if they were celebrating jesus the whole time they were knocking eachother out of the way for a flat screen
November 28, 2009 at 12:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
joz1984, Do you have any wonderful Childhood memories that take you back to a better time when things were NOT as you say they are today ? Yes, I agree with you, but how does ignoring it help ? There have Always been greedy people who would knock you down for a Furby but I choose NOT to be a part of that scene. I would hope that almost Everyone would have some pleasant memory of Christmas that they could bring to back life and share with someone else. Christmas HAS become way to commercialized and that is sad, it is to bad that the TRUE reason for the Season has been pushed aside for a Wii or a PS3 but no one can change that by ignoring it.
There is nothing wrong with the gift giving so long as we Remember that the TRUE Gift was given on the Cross
Merry Christmas
and GOD Bless
November 28, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
X-Mas is another celebration of yet another pagin Holiday. When Rome switched to christianity x-mas placed on the same day as a Pegan holiday. It is not when your Jesus was born, just as Jesus was not white and did not have the long wavy hair that you see in your pictures depicting your savor. Christianity has so many falsehoods due to what people wanted to see and hear when it came to putting their faith somewhere. Not discrediting christianity as a whole but there are many falsehoods with the religion that people overlook to suit their own needs.
November 28, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sense says...
in regards of xmas, x is an ancient symbol for Christ, look it up -
November 28, 2009 at 8:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
tydej, the implication is not about WHEN, but about WHY. We celebrate the Birth of Jesus Christ on December 25 for reasons unknown to me but when he was born is not as important as WHY he died.
Merry CHRISTMAS
November 28, 2009 at 9:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
Fred as you call yourself (don't think it's the original), I feel honored you picked me one other to call by name. I don't think you have the right nor the spirituality to tell anyone who shall or shall not be entering the kingdom of heaven. I have learned a lot in my short life about people like you and your online name sake. I've come to know those like yourself stand on your soap box and spew your toxic hatetred into the air, tear people down due to what you call the lack of morality, and condem those who do not walk the same path. I say to you and the like-minded that your lord the one you claim to praise did not condone hatetred, he would be ashamed at your conduct to your fellow man. You are nothing more than a coward who hides behind a bible, skirts around written law and tramples upon moral laws in many of your actions. How dare you tell me or anyone else where their etirnity will be. I don't think you qualify as anyone of authority in any community as long as you keep up your evil ways, besides for a self built community made up of ones own relatives. If you find the need for personal attacks when it's uncalled for so be it. I stated truth and fact without being rude, thoughtless, or crass. I didn't attack you or your religion or insult you in anyway. If you care to step to the line about anything I said say it. I stand by it all!!!
November 28, 2009 at 9:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ufc08 says...
I have friends who work at I&M Machine shop they have laser machines there that will cut out a santa in stainless alot cheaper. They also have welders anything you need. The laser makes perfect cuts you wouldn't have to do much more to it. They are also a local owned business that does excellent work. Has anyone checked with them to see how much it would cost.
November 28, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grandpacory says...
The mayor promising city funds for a one-month-out-of-the-year sculpture during a recession on a private bldg is ridiculous.
LOD: X is the Greek letter 'Chi' and has been used as an abbreviation for over 1000 yrs in many text. Take your pithy FoxNews talking points to the bank and cash in that .0000002 cent cash value.
November 28, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joz1984 says...
Gotta agree with deerslayer that scrap heap gives a great impression of the city. This town doesn't want progress though, every chance they get they are trying to refurbish or bring something back, another great example is the pony express motel sign that the city seems to deem as historic, which in reality is probly confusing to tourists looking for the motel. Each time we try to step backward it takes us further from getting ahead
November 29, 2009 at 1:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
No28301016 says...
If private citizens, drunk christians, or a clear thinking atheist wants to throw away money on one imaginary structural icon to celebrate another imaginary event, so what; just leave taxpayer money out of this deal. Grable can use the money too. Incidentally, the good ole Corby Bldg would be a location to consider for a tinsel town display. The Mead Bldg already has a roof where folks can sit and look out rather than a roof to look up at. Go up there; there's enough stuff up there already to gaze around while picking out roof tops and sunsets while relaxing on the fake rooftop plastic garden and AC units, etc. Lift one of those "trolley" buses up there instead; light it up and serve coctails.
November 29, 2009 at 1:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
I really had no clue as to the amount of animosity among people today and I truly feel sorry for those who have no Joy.
It is becoming increasingly apparent why the world is in the shape that it is. It seems like no one wants to take time off from being grumpy to enjoy anything, That really IS sad.
I DO realize that everyone don't feel the same or enjoy the Christmas Season but what I DON'T understand is WHY they want to dump on it for those of us who DO.
November 29, 2009 at 7:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Man all of this just because Santa and the Reindeers on top of Mead.It was just a tradition to see this display on top of the Mead biulding.It to some was nice to be able to see this.I am glad Mead donated it to the city and it is still in our community to see but it would be nice to see the orginal display back on top of this biulding.Just a thought if the new owners of the Mead owners are willing to donate 26,000 to biuld this new display why not just put the old display back on top of the biulding to show during the Christmas season then take it down after.I am sure there is room up there to do this and it would not cost 26,000 or the 52,000 price tag for the new display.People are going to the roof of this biulding in the winter anyway I would not think.It would be pretty cold up there.
November 29, 2009 at 8:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Leonie says...
Steve O-we have the mead santa in a better place, you can see it up close and tell the stories to your kids. We took our California visitor to see it last year as soon as he got in town, he loved it.
Our point is (and the News Press is obviously trying to drive this point home too) Ken Shearin is a nut who thinks just because he is mayor, he can promise anything and make it so. The Mead building is a privately owned building. The end. Game over. So Ken needs to quit beating the dead horse and help promote WHAT WE HAVE!
You are the one that started the Jesus debate in the wrong place. And since you started it-I personally find that people who jabber outside of a church about keeping Christ in Christmas and Jesus Christ being their personal savior, are generally the most hypocritical crooked creeps you could ever meet.
November 29, 2009 at 8:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joz1984 says...
By the time its said and done there may not be many businesses left in st joe willing or able to sponser the pieces of this as the mayor planned we may end up with only a sleigh and three reindeer, halfway done like most of the projects started in this town.
November 29, 2009 at 11:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Not advocating driving under the influence but why are people dragging someones personal life into this.It was said he is a good sheet metal worker and it should have been left at that other then was it put out for bids and not just Mr Grable.Now we are posting peoples personal info on here the NP should remove the comments when it comes to people posting other people personal info.
November 29, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pops says...
tydej,
You DID attack Christianity by saying some of the ignorant, hateful things you said....
Look...YOU may believe those things, but to toss those accusations at people who consider themselves to be Christians is unkind and terrifically insensitive. I can't understand how you can come back, after saying what you said, and maintain you didn't say anything accusatory or hurtful.....
Unbelieveable....
November 29, 2009 at 5:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Fantome says...
mm1967
There is this thing called the "Internets" perhaps you have heard of it. There is a vast amount of information to be found there. How is it personal info it is available online to anyone. Don't we have the right to investigate people who are working for or contracted to the city?
November 29, 2009 at 6:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Fantome
You can investigate all you want but you do not have to post personal info about them.If anybody else want to see it they can do the same look on the internet.It is not our right to post personal information about people here on these post.Plain and simple.
November 29, 2009 at 11:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rabble_Rouser says...
I don't see any personal info posted mm? I looked up the casenet info and I see nothing wrong with posting the DWI info, it isn't slanderous and is "merely stating fact" as fantome pointed out. I do find it a little disturbing that people are quick to defend a persistent DWI offender. I guess it no big deal till you lose someone you love to an offender.
I do think its silly if ANY CITY MONEY goes to pay for this.
November 29, 2009 at 11:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
pops, seeing you didn't say what it is that was "ignorant and hateful"? I reread my comments and could not find anything that matched your description. I said there are falsehoods due to what people wanted to hear and see. Let me know specificly what it was that I said to get you so worked up and how you think they are ignorant and hateful.
November 30, 2009 at 12:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
Ii does not bother me to be called a hypocritical, crooked creep, I know where I stand and that's all that matters.
What I don't understand is, Mead is no longer Mead, and That is That. Well did you ever think that the New owners may be in FAVOR of this, or maybe you ARE the new owner, Somehow I Doubt That though!
November 30, 2009 at 1:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
No28301016 says...
private money spent on a private building-no problem. that Jesus as King or Christ is just Santa Claus for adults anyway,
just a feel good wishful thinking holiday. go a wassailing away and spread cheer for whatever reason and don't drive over any elves. and, go Grable. you other do-gooder 'repeat offenders' just haven't been nabbed yet. ye who has never dipped into the punch bowl and driven a motorized vehicle raise your hand; otherwise, dream on.
November 30, 2009 at 1:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Rabble_Rouser,
First I was saying people should not post personal info about people on these post and if they want to go to the extent of looking at court records so be it.Now to address your remark it is ok to defend a persistant DWI offender till they lose someone you love.Well let me tell you before you post comments like that a DWI PERSISTANT Offender Killed my Grandmother when I was a child.SO you see I happen to know just a lttle about this subject.But it is not people on here place to post personal info about people for any reason and the post with personal info were removed that,s why you do not see it the NP must have thought the same.
November 30, 2009 at 4:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sense says...
The mayor also suggest that we should bring all the christmas trees to Krug park and burn them all and have a big city wide marshmellow roast -
November 30, 2009 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
I would look forward to seeing apple/sence there for sure.
November 30, 2009 at 8:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bthing_2005 says...
It is so funny how people can be so mean to others over a Santa. Everyone pitched such a gripe when they were getting rid of the past display on the building. I remember when the parks had such a big fight over who was getting it. Just be happy our city dose something nice like that for the community. The kids that look at it think its great they do not worry about how much it cost, just look at the smiles on there face. Thats priceless!!!
November 30, 2009 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rabble_Rouser says...
mm I am sorry for your loss. However you still aren't getting it. How is it personal info if all you have to do is go to https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet and you can find out the info for yourself? Just look at the post right above yours that is the mentality I am talking about. Also where did I say "it is ok to defend a persistant DWI offender till they lose someone you love."
November 30, 2009 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
deerslayer1967 says...
Both my comments have been deleted by the staff, so I can't follow the thread I left. Truth hurts, certain personal info is not personal, and sometimes you have to pay for that information. With the internet and the freedom of information one can access...why not shine the light on the dark? I can tell you all that one's personal qualifications in the professional world do depend on their past history. Ever heard of a "background check"? It costs money and since I had already subscribed, i thought I would look up the "unamed individual". My whole point was that it was ridiculous by the mayor to come up with the idea to create a new santa...must of come up with that idea while twiddling his thumbs. If you want the project to go forward, put it up for bids, not a specific person.
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.
November 30, 2009 at 7:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
recordsetter816 says...
Let's get fooled and distracted by spending money on a feel-good make believe character instead of confronting the real sadness of another decent wage paying, business attracting paper company exit from St. Joe (Mead and Smurfit.)
November 30, 2009 at 8:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
i thought that mead actually left because the building which they contracted to occupy did not meet specified structural requirements.....????
November 30, 2009 at 9:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Heritage,
I believe you are correct Mead wanted to move to this biulding in Mitchell Woods but it would not support their equipment.
November 30, 2009 at 9:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rabble_Rouser says...
If the city/county would have given financial incentives like they are now they would have stayed. The difference between now and then is the economy was on fire then and now its almost extinguished so they are willing to do a lot more to keep and create jobs here.
November 30, 2009 at 9:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
stjgood says...
Well thats what we need to worry about is where the mead santa will go, last time i checked i think getting jobs in st joe is a bit more important, but what do i know.
November 30, 2009 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
stjgood,
I agree with you this is something St Joseph City leaders and the chamber need to be worring about attracting good paying jobs to our community before it is to late and we are a retirement community.Some in our community think we are doing just fine but we have lost more good paying jobs then we have developed in our community.It almost seems as if this is what our leaders and the chamber want all minimum wage jobs.
November 30, 2009 at 10:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
Okay seeing pops will not respond after two days, can anyone else tell me how my comment was as he quotes "ignorant hateful and hurtful" when I was talking about Christanity? I honestly would like to know as I never try to offend anyone on the NP site. I said things in opisition to what some may think and/or feel but have never tried to be hateful and hurtful; and always try to have a truthful/factual backing to anything I say. I'm really confussed, plase someons shed somelight for me. ???
December 1, 2009 at 2:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rabble_Rouser says...
"Christianity has so many falsehoods due to what people wanted to see and hear when it came to putting their faith somewhere"
If you were a Christian would that not offend you?
Would you not consider that hateful and hurtful if you were a Christian?
December 1, 2009 at 4:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
deerslayer1967 says...
since you are already going off topic...I thought I should point out this interesting video. let me know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAckfn...
December 1, 2009 at 5:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
deerslayer1967 says...
you have to cut and paste the link into your browser, then hit "go" or enter on the keyboard.
December 1, 2009 at 5:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
Is it not a falsehood that most pictures of Jesus show him as a white skined man with wavy hair, when we know he was of middle eastern decent and the bible states he had wool-like hair? Am I being hateful, hurtful or ignorant by saying his birth was not on or around 12-25 but celebrated on such to coinside with a pegan holiday celebrating the sun god and the winter soltice? When Romans switched to Christianity this was done so that when pegans conducted their worship, Christians would not cause controversy celebrating their savors birth which was a crime in these days. I believe in God yet know there are falsehoods within my own religion. I ask questions of my faith and seek answers for my questions. I don't see why others are unable to admit there are falsehoods with the faith. I still would like to know what I said that would be ignorant, hurtful and hateful when all I did was point out facts that are backed by science and the religion itself. I never said the religion was wrong I just said there were falsehoods that people have to help them believe in their religion. Do you really think that many Americans would have little to no objection if current pictures of Jesus were replaced to show him in a truer likeness; whhere he is shown as a darker skined man with features much like those of the middle east we are either at war with or hold a strong dislike for? If I had incorrect facts or lies I can see why someone would be upset with my words but when I state fact I fail to see how it is hateful, hurtful, or ignorant. The only way I can see how they are is if the saying "The truth hurts" is applied to what I've said. I am not trying to tear the religion down in anyway just stating fact. There are other falsehoods within the religion but I chose 3 major ones that are widely known or should be known. So once again I ask how is what I said ignorant, hateful, and hurtful? I really would like to have more input because all I have gotten so far is an emotional responce not backed by science nor the religion of which I speak of in my comments.
December 1, 2009 at 9:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rabble_Rouser says...
Once again let me explain it too you falsehoods and faith are two words that do not go together. How do you know what Jesus looked like were you there? Have you ever seen a picture of a black Jesus? Does that offend you as well? I do not worship the image of Jesus. Also it is widely known that December 25 is not the actual birthday of Jesus. Now I will re-post your quote again.
"Christianity has so many falsehoods due to what people wanted to see and hear when it came to putting their faith somewhere"
You are directly attacking someones faith plain and simple I'm sorry if you don't see that.
December 1, 2009 at 10:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
I was not alive while Jesus lived but have had the oppertunity to visit Israel and I can tell you that of the natives to that area there was not one white person among them. As far as a black Jesus this is yet another example of a falsehood to help those who want to put their faith somewhere. As you and both stated 12/25 is not the actual birthday of Jesus, therefore making the date we celebrate a false day. You yourself said that religion and falsehoods are two words that don't go together but admit to 12/25 not being the actual birth just the excepted day to celebrate, making it a....falsehood; something that is not correct. If you agree 12/25 was not his date of birth how is that not a falsehood. By saying there are falsehoods within the structure of this religion is not an attack, have I claimed the religion is wrong or untrue. People have over the years adapated things that are false to help them believe more in their faith. Is this not true. How is this attacking the faith? I am saying it's human nature to want to relate to things and this is true in religion as well. Attacking the religion would be trying to dispute or falseify they world of the bible which I have not done. Attacking would have been saying the religion was false or untrue. Attacking the religion would be be saying that Jesus did not exist. I said none of these things. I say again that there are falsehoods that have been made common, so people have a closer personal relationship on where they put their faith. It's also a falsehood that Mary of Magdalia was a whore; this is something that was said by a Pope hundreds of years ago and only recinded by the Church until the 1970's. Am I attacking the religion for pointing that out also? I say all of this not of spite, hate or to speak ill words, I am only saying the truth. I guess I was correct in my assumstion that THE TRUTH HURTS as that is the only way my words would be taken as an "attack, ignorant, hateful or hurtful". I happen to enjoy and rely on truth in my life and as painful as the truth may seem in many facits of life, it is just that, the truth.
December 1, 2009 at 11:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
Fred we are not talking about homosexuailty but there is data on both sides of the issue. Some theories say that sexuality is preprogramed or something that is determined by brain makeup or chemicals from the mother nd some evidence says it's an enviormental or a learned behavior. As I amnot a sciencetist who studies sexuality I can only speak from personal experience and would not be able to back my personal thoughts with solid medical or scientific data. That being said why is ones sexuality a factor with this discussion?
December 2, 2009 at 12:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joz1984 says...
From light up santa to religeon and homosexuality?
December 2, 2009 at 2:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
I never used science to disprove Chrisianity, I never attempted to disprove Chrisianity. I said that what people visualize in their minds is often incorrect. I said the arecertain things that have been done that are incorrect and falsified by some church leaders. As far as me being a homosexual I sin no more or no less than anyone else and live a good life by all standards, I am not an evil ungodly person because of whom I love. You of all people should not judge others by their actions due to some of the actions that have been pert of. Evertime you have disagree w/ me you hone in on my sexuality to discredit my words. Being is a small aspect of my life yet dose not control my life.
December 2, 2009 at 6:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LibertyOrDeath says...
Christianity is pagan-based. Anyone arguing to the contrary is either delusional or ill-informed probably as a result of their lack of motivation to do their own research.
That being said, I think they should build 2 500' towers on top of the Mead building in which to fly the pagan giver-of-gifts. I think it would look really cool that high in the air.
December 2, 2009 at 6:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
deerslayer1967 says...
Liberty, maybe you should correct yourself..Christianity is not pagan-based, maybe Christmas is. Indeed, the romans post-constantine as the emperor, did try to integrate Christianity into the outlands and the best way to get the pagans to buy into that was make it part of the winter solstice, as well as yule logs and all the trimmings. However, Christ did exist and Christ is even mentioned in the Quran as a prophet. phelps, you may have your destiny already planned out in your judgement day. If I were you, I would ask forgiveness. Even Jesus can do that. I have seen kids that have their sexual roles already prescribed to them from genetics. They were way too young to know what their sexual identity "should" be, but you could tell where they were destined. I believe it is genetic.
phelps did have one thing right..faith, it is what we believe in Christ...I don't care if he was black, white, or even purple. I don't care what the exact date that He was born on, or even died. I believe He died on the cross for me and my sins. His existence has been recorded in many texts, and that is what I choose to believe.
btw...copy this into your address bar and hit go or enter. really cool song. "it's called Christmast with a capital C" by a group of Christian singers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAckfn...
December 2, 2009 at 9:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LibertyOrDeath says...
What-in-the-heck-ever... that song was absolutely horrible.
The same story of the heavenly stars has been told to the "t" thousands of years before Jesus Christ laid claim to it. Why can't you tell me why that is? Or can you?
Can you tell me why over 40 saviors throughout history, long before Jesus Christ, all share the same story - from immaculate conception to 3-day resurrections on December 25th? I've yet to here one good anything to explain it. Other than it being a wonderfully-woven astrological story, I don't detect the significance of your Jesus tales.
December 2, 2009 at 10:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
LOD...you and I must have seen the same movie, (excuse the spelling) Ziengiest. Excellenct movie and very insiteful. Raises many questions that modern day religion is unable to answer.
December 2, 2009 at 11:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
Have any of you ever heard of Ron Wyatt ? During his life he was a respected Biblical archeologist. You need to look him up and study some of his undisputed findings.
This IS the most important one,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGLPAD...
Don't stop here, look him up and study his works, This guy is No Flake !!!!
GOD Bless You
Merry CHRISTmas
December 3, 2009 at 5:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
When Ron Wyatt talks about blood, he knows what he is talking about, he WAS a Registered Nurse !!
December 3, 2009 at 5:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
tydej,,,, Mary Magdalia you say, well I can tell immediately
that YOU are quite the Bible Scholar !!
December 3, 2009 at 5:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LibertyOrDeath says...
Zeitgeist.
I have seen it, but I was hot on the trail of this stuff for a while. Zeitgeist makes it nice because of the abundance of information in one place.
Guys - I've read and watched just about every person out there who has a story or research on religion. While all of them address the uniqueness of Christ in their own way, NONE of them can address why Horus, Mythra, Dionysus and many others share the exact same story.
Born of a virgin
Birth signified by a star in the East
Greeted by the 3 kings
Followed by 12 apostles
Becomes a prodigal teacher at age 12
Is referred to as the Alpha, Omega, lamb of Christ, Son of God, etc.
Crucified, dead for 3 days and resurrected on the third day and ascended into heaven.
C'mon dude - give me a single answer why Jesus Christ gets credit for this when the sotry was told THOUSANDS of years before him?
This is typically where believers either dispute the facts with no argument for doing so or they close their mouth and invoke faith.
I would too if I put my life stock in something that I realized I knew nothing about.
I don't care if you believe or not, but DON'T tell me that your religious story is the only one because buddy, you're dead wrong.
It's not a sin by your god to explore the details surrounding the religion you choose to be a part of. I would think an all powerful god would rather have vigilant truth seekers as opposed to blind followers.
But then again, we're not talking about gods. We're talking about religion being used as a vessel in which to further a political agenda and in that case, it's sheep they want.
December 3, 2009 at 7:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tydej says...
steve-o.....sorry if my spelling was off but you knew exactly whom I was speaking of. Pick apart my words and thoughts but to harp on spelling......really?
December 3, 2009 at 9:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
deerslayer1967 says...
Dear Liberty, 40 saviours..name them. You state you have a wealth of information, yet don't quote it. Is this something we should "take faith in"? I do question things, particularly, your statements based on no facts. I have yet to substantiate your accusations that Horus, Mythra, and Dionysus share the exact same story with Jesus. for example, Horus was not rolled out of a cave after 3 days and was not born from a virgin mother? Maybe the parabel would be closer to cain and abel..given that he cut one of his brothers testicles off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
Mithra/Mythra shares no semblance to Jesus and came about at the same time as Christianity..1-4 AD. Not thousands of years as you attest. There is no story of it having 12 followers...do your research first before making silly remarks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras
Dionysus makes you look even more ignorant. He was the god of greek wine you poor fool. I didn't even have to look that up, but I did to back my statement. no stories there except drunkeness.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/gr...
Liberty, I don't know who is fooling you, but if you don't back your words up with facts/references..you look the fool that you are. Maybe you have ONE atheistic website that makes up your propaganda, and that is where you get your information from, but try looking elsewhere. I'm not trying to push a political agenda. I'm just speaking about what I believe. AND it's called CHRISTMAS WITH A "CAPITAL" C!! If I were you, I wouldn't reply as I have an IQ of 150 and could make you look the idiot infinitely..probably twice yours.
December 3, 2009 at 8:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LibertyOrDeath says...
You are correct - their stories are not "exactly" the same. My fault in wording, here's the scoop...
Horus - 3000BC Egypt
He performed miracles, was called the lamb of God. He was crucified and was dead for 3 days and then resurrected.
Attis - 1200BC Greece
Born of a virgin on December 25th, was crucified, dead for 3 days and resurrected
Krishna - 300BC India
Born of a virgin, birth signified by a star in the East, performed miracles and was resurrected after death.
Dinoysus - 500BC Greece
Born of a virgin on December 25th, performed miracles, was called the alpha and the omega and was resurrected after death. He also turned water into wine.
Jesus Christ - Bethlehem
Born of a virgin on December 25th and signaled by a star in the East, child teacher, performed miracles, known as king of kings, alpha and omega, crucified, dead for three days and resurrected ascending into heaven.
That's all I have time for right now - I've got to get but I would LOVE to actually continue this conversation.
One thing though, lay off with the personal attacks, it's childish and I did not attack anyone. If you would like to tout your mythical IQ then by all means, let's see if your IQ can write a check your ass can cash.
I wouldn't brag about being so smart - it make you look more the fool when I knock you on your face. Don't attack me. Have the discussion or move on with your simple self.
You can attack me all you want but the fact remains that you're pointing out that Christianity was loosely based off of a wine god and is ultimately astrological.
December 4, 2009 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
deerslayer1967 says...
You are correct sir in that I should not have called you "intellectually challenged" and I apologize. However, you do not provide ONE reference to back up your statements whilst I did provide references in my previous post. While I did do searches to find the truth to your last post, I could find none. Maybe you could enlighten me?
Dionysus, which you spell as Dinoysus, how could he be born December 25 and be in 500 BC greece..the julian calendar wasn't invented until 45 BC??
here is what I found about attis... http://www.thedevineevidence.com/paga...
granted probably biased as non-atheistic as in my last post slammed atheistic sites. and this..
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Jes...
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/A...
"Attis was a Phrygian or a Lydian dear to Cybele. He is remembered for having cut off his genitals in a fit of folly. Some say that at his death he was turned into a pine tree, but even more extraordinary is his birth" what does this have to do with Jesus? don't remember Him removing his scrotum.
I could go on, but you tire me with an ignorance of a discussion. Please provide references to back up your statements.
December 4, 2009 at 7:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )