Mr Myers said he would have liked to have more people attend and they did not advertise.Well lets see you should have given the public more then a few hours notice and also should of had this meeting at a better time and held it somewhere that could hold a few people instead of the parkway library which would not hold hardly any amount of people.Like Heritage said this was your alls plan and it worked great and you say you want to involve the community.I feel sorry for these people that seem to be really concerned as the rest of us are as well but the direction these people in charge are going in shady and they know exactly what they are doing to limit the amount of community involvement by holding these types of event in the time and settings like this.Why was this not held at the Treroster Media Center and at a different time Mr Myers and you all are being very dishonest with the public in your actions and tatics.We to believe our schools need funding but for one it should have been planned out better and needed to address the long term financial health of our schools without a sunset andddddddd not out on the ballot till April of next year and this would have allowed time for the community's wounds to heal and the SJSD time to learn what communication meant with the public.Sir actions speak louder then words and your and the TF actions are not being a 100% honest with the community.Like I have said all people appointed to the groups the TF are going to come from the NE look these oppintment did. Prove us wrong and start involving the rest of the city or the voters will send you a clear message in November. AT this point it is NO IN NOVEMBER for us not because we are district haters because of the issue at hand is just wrong and the TF transparentcy issues.

Also Mr Myers you do have some opposition and it is the St Joseph Voters of the North end,South end,West side of town,Southeast Side of town and I would be worried getting started so late in your efforts.Maybe you all should focus on those areas of town instead of the little camp in the NE.Also if you claim to be so upfront and want tot involve the community where is those results from your survey and what parts of town were the conducted in?This is part of involving the community!!!!!.Seee really alot of this boils down to people not trusting your group as well as people not trusting the SJSD administrators.I support our children and our schools 100% but not thisd oneside effort.

i was the lone civilian in the CROWD.

i am sure these are very nice people. however i have to ask where is the BOE? where is the SJSD? where was the rest of the TASK FORCE? i did see dr. kosek was lingering in the corner.....

it was LUDICROUS when meyers called for questions. we all know that the task force unanimously agreed that the levy amount is completely inadequate and that the sunset is the wrong thing for the community and its future. the TF and ACE, along with the administration and the BOE ALL AGREE that this levy is a bad compromise.

And as he was asking this question he was laughing all along knowing what he and the TF had did.Poor people that are these co-chairs they do not know what they have gotten themselfs into.Maybe everybody should just flood Mr Roepe and Mr Myers and Mr Kirbys phone lines with questions.Let see today is the 3rd of Oct they have 1 month till election.Mine will still be NO IN NOVEMBER.

It is my very firm belief that these groups think they can get the ballot issue passed WITHOUT the support of you and/or those in these other parts of town. They think if they can just get 170 more people from their nitch (clique) to vote yes than the issue will pass. As much as I want to vote yes, I simply cannot, and will not until genuine sincereity is displayed by these self anointed Kings and Queens.
For goodness sake all the appointees couldn't even attend the meeting to introduce them...selves, as appointees. Does no one on these 'commitees' have any common sense at all?

in their defense one spouse was home with sick children.

No opposition huh? Well time will tell the day of the vote when all is tallied up how much of an opposition there really is. It is No in November.

Just what are these chairs going to do? You have Mr. Roepe, doing whatever he does. You have Unicom-Arc, doing whatever they do. You've got the Gang of Four, plus the Task Force. Who's the chief and who are the Indians? Who is the clear-cut boss that everybody reports to? Is it Kevin Kirby? Is it Chris Roepe? Is it the Gang of Four? It sounds like the whole appearance thing. Where does the school board and administration, who have created this whole situation, fit into the mix? Some people enjoy playing politics, just because they enjoy playing politics. Is this a case of a bunch of joiners wanting to play politics? The reality of the situation is that nobody--not Roepe, not Kirby, not the chairs, not the Gang of Four, nor the Task Force,can answer for the St. Joseph School District. Only the school board and administration can do that. So why has the St. Joseph School District handed the district's responsibility over to this assemblage of people? Like it or not, this is a referendum on what this administration and board have done to date. Do you suppose when they have their own meetings, that all of the above mentioned people/groups can be there? May I suggest later than 4:15.

Good points dillygent1 I really do not believe anybody at this point knows who's in charge of what or who.And this is correct how can these folks be in charge of the districts responsibilities?The board does not know how to address all of the issues so this is easier for them to turn things over.Also they were pretty smart having this meeting at 4:15pm when alot of people were at work not off yet and or picking children up and having dinner and the normal family drill at this time.Just still proves they do not want any community involvement and on top of that Parkway library where you cannot get that many people in there?And a bunch of politics and politicians are not to be trusted.Where was Mr Shields in April 2009?Whats in it for him?

The immediate thought coming to mind is not involvement but dog & pony show. The district and being specific as possible, the board, does not have a clue. Terribly unfortunate for the educational process of the community in need serious reform.

i am told that when the media contacts the TF the answer is that the TF is now absorbed into the OUR>>>>> campaign.

the TF effectively bought the sjsd with their offer to fund the campaign. now they claim that the campaign is no longer controlled by the TF ( or GOF) but is now a citizen's group. seems to have come full circle, but more in the manner of a dog chasing its tail.

THIS isn't a dog and pony show. it is a dog trying to scratch a hind end itch.

go back and read the comment by meyers in the article entitled School Group Looks To Encourage Discussion".... "the difference in the last campaign was the district ran it internally. we're trying to solicit volunteers to do it. there should not be any hint of impropriety because we are ALL VOLUNTEERS."

wow.

i join john courter. NO in NOvember. enough is enough. there IS opposition, and those who oppose this administration and its willingness to hand the ball off to a completely unidentified and unregulated entity in order to pass a levy which no one, not the sjsd, not the BOE, not the Task Force, and Not ACE believes is the best decision for the children.

Seem like a bunch of political stratagy to me since Politicians are behind this.And like I said I do not think anybody with these people knows who's in charge of what.And as far as all being VOLUNTEERS well lets see Mr Roepe is gett a little over 1200 a week for this show they are putting on in our community.If I am not mistaken Mr Shields used to be a manager at VENTURE STORE here in St Joseph and had to deal with the public on a more personal level and he must have forgotten those management skill because the approach he has his TF or whatever they want to call themselves a total different direction then dealing with the public hands on.

Apple the TF has also taken a different direction since then and now maybe she has taken a different outlook on the issue.You know it is a person right to change his or her mind.Apple try this hold your tonge and say apple and what comes out is what I personally think you are.

I think the thing that bothers me the most, is that all of this was set in motion by the school board, Task Force, and Gang of Four.It would appear that now that the work is going on, it seems that they have washed their hands of it and are letting the poor civilians go at it. I just don't understand. I wonder if they do. I would think they have a master plan, but...it seems like a funny way to run a railroad. It will be interesting to see how it washes out.

No she change her position maybe after seeing things that were not right.Did you ever to think about look at it that way as Isaid people can change their postions on things at any time but if they do they must have saw something they did not like or know not tot be true.

Ok Apple that your opinion and you are intitled but I think it is the other way around here.

apple - H didn't lie - the quote said “I wish them well and will not work against them.” Them refers to the TF and their efforts. Since there is no longer a TF, they can no longer be opposed. Dispute resolved, now you can sleep at night.

I agree, it is no longer the TF. The dynamic has changed drastically. Whatever was stated at that BOE meeting is a dead issue. I encourage all in the community who do not agree with the present direction and its implications to speak out with your vote in November. A clear message needs to be sent that when comes to causes that require apublic vote, it is much more then analysing numbers to predict a supposed outcome. It is No in November.

NO in NOvember.

this thing is SO wrong and has morphed into a complete mess. standing on the sidelines would at this point be like watching a bunch of thugs breaking windows out along an entire street and not calling the police.

Apple please quit calling people names.As you see above they say the TF is not anymore and now it is OCOF and so this is a total different group again and they now have different views so if ACE wanted to oppose them they are not aopposing the TF because they are no more if I read correctly.

I would like to know who paid to have this added to the ballot since last I heard, the "Committee" had only pledges, no collected funds, and certainly not enough to place the issue on the ballot. The County website shows the issue on the ballot, so it has been formally placed. The question is, who paid the fee?

justsayin - My understanding is the school district paid the $50K to have the issue put on the ballot but the Coalition for Progress/Community Task Force/Our Children, Our Future, Our Decision, with its ever evolving membership and agenda is raising funds from the community for the levy campaign and the long range plan.

I will be shocked if a penny is raised for the long range plan prior to the levy outcome being decided. My guess is if the levy fails, the Gang of Four will simply walk away and let the long range plan fall on its face.

apple - since you like to call names and label people, here is one for you - hypocrite.

You call people names, stomp your feet, & rant & rave that everyone adhere to an arbitrary moral code that you define while supporting a group of people that have intentionally manipulated the community and caused deep mistrust. Now that is rich!

PS - I have the courage to attach my name to my comments, so anyone in the world can read what I have to say. Wish you had similar courage.

apple knows not what she/he is doing when she/he is calling people names it has become second nature for her/him to do this.Especially when you do not see things his/her way and are not pro-district. SHE/HE finds it hard to believe you support your school,teachers,and local schools admin.But do not support the OCOF group or the Administration downtown so he/she decide's to call anybody and everybody with a different view names.I agree with you Mr Hickman she/he is a Hipocrite.

Also I hope these co chairs know how to unite a community instead of divide a community as the TF or the OCOF people as well don't forget the GOF has been doing.Their time is ticking and they do not have much time to get this accomplished. Look a good start is having meetings at a time when the community can attend not when they know they will not get a turn out.

changed my user name. as most who post here often know, i have frequently identified myself as sarah hochschwender. this just makes it official.

John, you hit the nail on the head with that last post.

yes, john, nice post. i will leave it at that.

as you know, john, ACE did not "demand equal time" to speak before the BOE. that was something which board member dennis snethen INSISTED on in a work session as this discussion was moving forward. supt smith ceded her half hour time to address the BOE after snethen made that request. i was at the work session, and accepted that offer.

i was not initially to have been the person who spoke at the meeting. i did so reluctantly. the text of what i said was written and contributed to by each person who chose to offer suggestions. it was revised multiple times.

Apple you would not know a lie if it bit you in the face as far as you are concerned we all lie with the exception of yourself you are such a saint.

MM, I like it: Saint Apple. I'm sorry, but I need a score card. If the Task Force is out, I'm assuming the GOF is in...or am I right that the GOF is still functioning? Is Mr. Kirby in or out? And finally, who do the four co-chairs answer to? It almost seems like the old Abbott and Costello comedy routine--Who's on First? Who's job is it to raise the money for the campaign? The Gang of Four or the co-chairs? And finally, I would still like to know where the GOF was in the April election, when buildings would have been built and the levy would have been permanent. Did the board not ask for help? Did they not try to make connections within the business community to help get this passed? Where does the fault lie? A school district with no political acumen or one that just thought they could go it alone?

One of my main problems, of trying to figure this out, is that I refuse to believe Mr. Shield's is letting go of the idea. From what I understand, it was his idea to go for the 63 cent levy with the sunset. I just can't see him just letting him go and letting 4 civilians run it. Somewhere I feel deals are being made and alliances are being forged to pass this levy--or whatever they'll call it next time 'round. Frankly, I don't think Mr. Shields wants to leave the Senate and be tagged with a losing effort, his first time out, without a fight. Look at it this way...in an earlier post, somebody said that he'd been a manager in a Venture store. He didn't get where he got in the Senate by just smiling at people. There were skills and strategies and networking involved, and consensus to build among his Senate colleagues.

Thank dillygent have you also noticed apple has quited down a bit she/he must have been told by the GOF OR OCOF to not continue the way she/he was because it was hurting their cause.
Dillygent I personally do not think any of them know who is doing what as you said whos's on first.We also have not heard anything about their survey and what part of town it was done in and what the feed back they was getting. This is called transparentcy which this group just proves they care nothing about.You know they read this so wonder what their problem is?Must have not got the feed back they was expecting or only did the survey in the NE side of town and want nobody to know.And they say they want tot involve the community,In a pigs but.I say along with others NO IN NOVEMBER.

If I remember correctly he was a manager of Venture on the Belt Highway he knew someone in the family and he made them a very nice price on my oldest sons baby bed 22 years ago to be percise.He seems to have forgotten his public relation skills he had back then.I was the one posted he worked there if my memory had served me correctly.But you know when politicians get involved things can get messy and their is really no transparentcy with them you have to dig and pry for everything.

You are just plain wrong apple but you cannot see anybody elses opinions but yours.Oneside like some other we know.She is not working against the TF they are not a group any longer now they have flip flopped again and are now OCOF with different views themselfs so did they lie as well?

"Changing your mind" and "Lying" are two very different things, red one.

Besides, we already discussed how placing blame and accusing are immature responses to issues and how we need to stop finding fault in order to move ahead on this issue, now didn't we, apps???

C'mon, I thought you were making progress in your online therapy and now you're back to your old tricks--maligning and casting aspersions in order to throw everyone off the scent of the real issue. Shame on you!

Now toddle on back to your chair and write 100 times "I will not call people names or accuse them of lying."

I used to be pretty sure that I would vote for the levy in November. I just wanted the main office to be a little nicer to their employees and to the community as a whole. I kind of thought I would be voting for the levy this time 'round. Now I'm not so sure. So now, am I lying or changing my opinion? Is it okay that I continue thinking, or does thinking make me a bad person? Doesn't thinking help to created responsible voting? The longer I go, I'm not sure they deserve to have it pass. I'm glad I don't have to make my final decision, yet.

No apple it seems as if the ACE plan would have worked better and it would have waited to put the levy back on the ballot and gave ACE and the board and the Superintendent more time to work together to get the community involved and get the trsut issue resolved and get the community onboard with the levy without a sunset.Oh but that right the reason the board and downtown admin did not want to go with this group is because they would have to get off their butts and get their hands dirty and work with the community themselves not have someone doing it for them.And also they wanted to follow the money trail and politicians. Wake up apple these people are just plain lazy and do not know how to address the community and involve them they need help.I also think ACE provided them with enough info they just choose the mentioned above for thewy did not have to work at anything.

For about the 100th time it seems and others have told you the same she did not lie she is not wroking against the TF it is not the TF any longer.Get it in your head and answer some of the other questions.

You will eventially get tired of copying and pasting her comment.Apple is it past your bed time?

Apple, you stated several times you would NOT support a levy with a sunset clause. Now you do. Looks like you are a liar, and a hypocrit as John pointed out.

mm.... an answer to the question of the survey from stjoekids.com
__________________________________________________________
>7) Will the TF release the full content of their recent survey, comments, methodology and it's geographic distribution?

Any surveying done for Community Engagement and planning will be made available to the public. None has been done. If you are referring to polling for the levy campaign, you can request that information from the Levy Chairs. The polling would be very focused on the November levy issue and have limited use after that time.

You can understand that this information cannot be released to the public until after the election. It is very expense to do campaign polling for issues or candidates. The polling deals with why and why not the issue or candidate will be supported. Not one is going to release the polling until after an election, because any opposition would have free polling results to use against the issue or candidate.
_________________________________________________________

it seems that some of the numbers must be indicating at the very least soft support. surely if this survey were showing a landslide of overall community support it would be ballyhooed from the rooftops by any savvy campaign manager?

Like I said the survey must have not shown the results they expected to get and are afraid of releasing the results even tho they said they would be transparent to the community and are not being because they are afraid someone would use it against them.But also by not releasing it we can also do the same and say they just plain are not happy with the results their survey showed and will not let the public see it because they are really concerned with the results and are just plain scared that this levy will fail this November as well. NO IN NOVEMBER is what we say and I think the majority will as well.Maybe then and is seems only then will they decide to listen and involve all of the areas of our community instead of just the NE.They are running scared and should be.Hope you all will enjoy a loss on your records one on it way in a few days.

You are wrong again apple starting to become a partern with you,She is not working against a group that is no more.Also this group has flip flopped more then Brett Farve has on Retirememnt.NO IN NOVEMBER are you starting to see a pattern there I think the group OCOF is.

mm - flip flopped more than Brett Farve - Good one.

mm & h - re:h's post October 6, 2009 at 10:14 a.m. with the response to her question.

There is a VERY positive commitment within this text:
"Any surveying done for Community Engagement and planning will be made available to the public."

That is a very unambiguous commitment. It will be very easy to determine if this commitment is followed. My best guess is the author of this response would not have written those words if he/she didn't intend to honor the commitment. In writing the email, I am sure the author knew the content would appear in a public posting on the Internet and took time to chose those words carefully - that is a great thing and a good sign!

I will also add, that from my perspective, any expectation of public disclosure of surveying done by the campaign committee isn't reasonable or realistic. The author articulates the reasons why quite well.

apple - your hypocrisy is embarrassing (for you).

If I follow your logic, are you really saying you can only be proclaimed a "liar" if you make a commitment in front of the SJSD BOE and then later change your position? So h changing her position is lying but you changing your position isn't? That just lacks intellectual honesty.

h changed her mind, apple changed her mind. Grow up, get over it and move on to issues that really matter instead of spending time discrediting people - you only discredit yourself.

Apple
you say you do not repersent a group it sure looks as if you are a very strong supporter of OCOF (TF) to the most who post here.
Get it in your head she has changed her mind,she has changed her mind.Quit looking yourself look like a fool like you have been on several subjects.

apple - from the other comments, I don't perceive that many agree with your perspective that changing your mind amounts to lying.

Apple you are a Hipocrite and one of your other post on a different article just proves it.

Apple I understand clearly unlike you.I hope you do not work with the public and have your attitude that you have here and your oneside view points.

Apple I owe you NO explaination for anything other to tell you that you are a very bad person.A degrading person that think you are above everybody else.Aperson that stoops to the level of caling people names and when people call you out this really comes out.Remember you said several months ago you were wrong in calling people names but you are right back to your old tactics.Grow up and see that there is different views then yours and that people do not love the school board and downtown admin as much as you do.Also I like the comments on the southside people where you make them out to be nothing and you and your precious NE out to be above them and every other area of town.I would call this a hipocrite.

Apple,I dare you to go down to the southside of town and openly express those views of the southside people in a open forum.If anything with views like that you are a heck of a lot worse person then anybody in this community.

If they are reading these post I would think they would be ashamed to admit that they were your friend.

Apple if and I mean if you have any friends in the southend of town they are probably transplants and are not people who have lived there all of their lives because believe me I lived there and grew up there and attended school there and happen to know a little about the southend of our community and people from the southend do not laugh at comments like you have made about them.But you are entitled to your opinions even though they are degrading like the comment about the girls that attend Benton and the people and the bottom of the lake comment and calling people more a less trailer trash I find very disturbing and offending. See appple I will have you know in a couple of years I will have a daughter and she is very beautiful that will attend Benton as I did and I do not find her to be garbage as you do.I do not believe any of my friends belong at the bottom of a lake either as you do.These are some comments you should have kept to yourself.I think you aowe people a apoligze personally.

apple & mm - you two need to cool it with the insults and jokes.

apple - you post inflammatory remarks & jokes in hopes of agitating mm. Bad form (and bad taste) - let's focus on the kids.

mm - apple posted the comments to elicit an angry response from you. Don't give her the pleasure - remember the old saying about sticks and stones. Bad form (have thick skin) - let's focus on the kids.

I still do not believe apple and think this is her beliefs about the people of the southend and the lake comment and the girls at Benton comment did it in for me.Iam not here degrading people and do not expect anybody to degrade anybody such as children in a joking form or not.Theres no different in the children in any area of this community they all need to learn and have great schools and teachers.Now back to the main reason for this group to involve everybody from every area of this community is for the good of the schools and the children but they cannot forcus on one side of toewn or this will further divide this community and issue and they will have such a hard time ever getting anything passed again for our schools.Is this what the OCOF group really wants because If I was wanting a school biult in my side of the toen this would be very detramental to their cause.Unless they are planning on using the levy or the surplus we have from the last levy to biuld a school in the NE and forget the Westside and this as well would be very bad idea and not help the schools in the future because as well they would never get anything passed again for the school.Just something for them to think about and why they may want to tconsider changing their stratigy.

mm - my point is we should meet where we agree.

We all agree that a strong educational system is important for the future of our community. Let's start there. Let's go to every corner of our community and give its citizens a chance to tell our leaders what they want for St. Joe's Kids. Let's review the research on effective teaching models and learning methods. Let's design a school system that will provide St. Joe's Kids with a world class education.

If you & apple would sit down together with that as your topic of conversation, my prediction is you would quickly discover you agree more than you disagree.

Frankly, I am sick and tired of all the childish behavior of our supposed community leaders! The arguing, political posturing & power plays wastes time - and I HATE when people waste my time. I can't wait until this levy campaign is over so we can get on with doing what's best for St. Joe's Kids!

As a St. Joseph School District Mother of five, I find the 2009 Operating Levy Tax Rates disturbing. Researching area rates on the Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education web site, I have found SJSD operating levy extremely low in comparison to much smaller districts.

The tax rate for the levy is currently $3.0865 for 25 schools. Alone the number doesn’t reveal much, but compare it to another area school. Platte County with seven schools receives $3.2353 for their operating levy. Platte County educates fewer than 2000 students, with more levy funds than SJSD uses to educate over 6600. One may argue Platte County closer to Kansas City and their families have more money. Take a look at the Richmond School District.

Richmond receives an operating levy of $3.3556 for four schools. They have less than 1000 children attending their schools. Their children have the privilege a levy rate of $.2691 more in funding for teachers, classrooms, computers and other school needs.

My children, your children and your grandchildren deserve that privilege too. I ask each of you to put aside your discontent with community groups, the SJSD administration, and the school board, and prepare to vote in favor of the children we are educating. They deserve your YES vote on the operating levy.

brilind,
I am sorry and agree with you about our schools needing more operating money but till a few things within the district that need solved and there is more transparentcy I will be voting NO in November and I as well have more then one child in school.

briliand, I am also a St. Jo SD mother of five. I also find the upcoming levy disturbing. I agree with you that 63 cents is not enough. What's more, the TF, the admin and the BOE know it is not enough. In spite of this and in spite of the fact that all those groups KNOW that the district will not even recieve this funding if the levy is passed for more than a year, they choose to go ahead and put it back on the ballot. They choose this path instead of using the time that they have to determine an amount that would properly fund our schools and provide long term stability. 63 cents with the sunset clause is not good for our children and not good for our community.

A vote yes is not a vote in favor of the children, but instead a vote against them because the district will be essentially bankrupt in four years without more money. I encourage those who truly care about what is right for our children and our community to vote no and DEMAND the BOE and administration ask for and fight for an amount that will properly and permanently fund education in Saint Joseph.

And don't give me the tired, old excuse that the voters won't say yes to a higher tax. I don't buy it. If the BOE/Administration properly engages the community via a legitimate long range planning process, the community will be on board and be more than willing to provide the district with the money they need to educate our children.

Well put yougottabekiddingme,
I as well think our district needs more operating levy for the good of our schools and all of the above mentioned needs to happen to get the community involved.They have plenty ogf time like you have stated because they will not get the revenue from this till the following year.I do not have 5 children in school but not far behind and I do not think this is the way to go and 1 or 2 years later have to fight this battle again do it right the first time is what we should be doing for the betterment of our schools.

I am really personally just ready to give up on the whole issue and just pull our children out of these schools and home school them I would then know for sure they were getting a education.There are several good places on the web to get info on home schooling and several parents to talk to about homeschooling.

brilind - Believe it or not, those posting comments here understand your point quite well.

We know the SJSD spends approximately $800 less/child/year than the average school district in the state of MO and approximately $1,700 less/child/year when compared to school districts in MO of similar size. Beau Musser (a Benton alumni & CPA) said it best when, at at BOE meeting this summer, he thanked the BOE & SJSD Admin for being good stewards of the tax payers' money and for producing good outcomes in spite of being underfunded.

We agree that St. Joe's Kids deserve the benefit of a competitive & appropriate level of funding. We agree that our community isn't providing that level of funding with the current levy. We also probably agree that the education of St. Joe's kids will go on forever (unless the town dies) and therefore the levy funding the operation of the schools should go on forever too, if we want the SJSD Admin & BOE to think long term as opposed to how they will get the next operating levy passed. We also probably agree that $0.63 won't be enough and within 4 years the SJSD will be back asking for over $2.85.

The reality is, at this point, the SJSD, BOE, TF & other community leaders have not adequately engaged the community. It is unfortunately, but the truth. We have a looming crisis for properly funding education in St. Joseph. The current levy proposal is just a band aid. Let's make sure we get it right and really solve the problem.

PS - yougottabekiddingme October 8, 2009 at 6:13 a.m. Very well articulated.

"My children, your children and your grandchildren deserve that privilege too. I ask each of you to put aside your discontent with community groups, the SJSD administration, and the school board, and prepare to vote in favor of the children we are educating. They deserve your YES vote on the operating levy."

Wow. Using the comments section to put out the official word. Maybe the tf DOES read these little spats! Whodathunkit!

<wonders if the GOF drew straws or had a throw-down to determine which member got this enticing little task>

And justsayin maybe the TF or OCOF and the district shoud be a little open to engaging all areas of this community and addressing the issues first and have a little transparentcy Instead they think other areas of this community need to be told what is best for their children because they judge people to not know what is right so this is a 2 way street.And the GOF must hink they are leading this group down this path.

The only group I belong to is PTA.

justsayin October 8, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. "<wonders if the GOF drew straws or had a throw-down to determine which member got this enticing little task>"

Actually, they have probably asked a teacher to spend less time at home at night grading papers and preparing a lesson plan and instead posting comments here.

It would be nice to think the GOF would actually do work. My experience was they consider themselves to be the "thinkers" and everyone else to be the "doers." That is why they are scrambling for volunteers right now.

PS - They might have also been testing their message to see how folks here would respond so they could tweak it before teachers start going door to door for the next 4 weekends.

PPS - Please be nice to the teachers that visit you, even if you don't support the levy. They are caught in the middle of all of this and trying to do what they perceive is best. They work hard to educate our kids!

I am not a teacher, I have no affiliation with the GOF, sadly I don't even know exactly who is in the group. I am a parent of a Central, Bode and 2 Edison students. My fifth child is not in school yet.

I feel for the teacher that have been drug into this task of going door to door and I also agree please be nice to the teachers when they do knock on your doors they are getting drug into this by their employer.They do the best for our children with the hand their employer had dealt them.

brilind - Know that I respect your perspective and probably agree with you more than I disagree.

Personally, I find it shameful that the TF asked the teachers to do such a task. All the teachers at my kids school are wonderful!! When they come to my door, I am inviting them in for a glass of wine, or cider. May make the task more bearable for them.

John Hickman: "PS - They might have also been testing their message to see how folks here would respond so they could tweak it before teachers start going door to door for the next 4 weekends."

AKA: test balloons. Wonder how they are going to tweak it, seems like this message isn't working. Hope they don't bring back the old "less than a latte a day" one.

kidder did you notice how many times the phrase "for the children" is used in the letter to the editor?

it does seem that the foregone conclusion is that a no vote means you don't care.

so far i see no change in this campaign and the previous one. no content, for the children...... what happened to the legions of volunteers and huge financial backing which was promised? has the GOF dropped the ball in the laps of those who had the best of intentions?

apple: "how shallow thinking"

apple: pot is that you? it's me, kettle.

apple - could you please explain further? Not sure I understand.

*********************

Yougottabekiddingme: ditto, excellent post!!

brilind- I do respect your viewpoint on the matter. One of the very very few posts that has put a rationale behind it. I do adiminantly disagree with that rationale, and if you read previous posts of mine, you will know why. I have all I need to back and support my rationale to vote No in November. I too do find the present approach to this disturbing, which is another reason I will vote No. I do not support causes that want my tax money that I find disturbing. Once again, we need to argue for true future state and for the proper resources to get us there now, not five years from now. I do not want to see this levy argument come up again in 2 or 5 years. I bring up 2 because of implications that a possibility exist this might be argued again in 2 if passed. Which to me is deceptive even more so because now the approach is to sell a sunset clause levy for 5 years to the public in an attempt to get a buy in and then turn around in 2 to reargue it. Goes once againright to the permenant levy agenda. Be straight with the public and argue for what it truly needed or we do not need it at all. The Board, District, Administration, need to take ownership of this. I am curious, NP you guys wrote an editorial piece back during the permenant levy campaign about fighting for what is needed. I loved that piece. What happened, did all those who were putting that fight up just cave because one round was lost? Now we go to a status quo solution instead of fighting for what is truly needed because we do not have the confidence of gaining public buy in for it? In my view, if that is the case, then that is sad. It is No in November, sunset clause hinders and holds back, it does not progress. The present state of the educational system here validates that more then anything.
I see another comment section was shut down and a record was set by one poster for "comment removed by staff". Real nice work on that one.
Apple suggestion, get away from the slamfest and focus on rationale. I stated this time and time again, I have yet to see a strong rationale for the existence of Our Children, Our Vision, Our Future, alias Task Force, alias Coalition for Progress, and its agenda. At least brilind put a rationale behind it, I disagree with how strong it is to support a sunset levy, but the focus is on rationale as opposed to the combat approach. There is only one group that I am aware of that spoke for the district and as of now I have heard nothing from them, absolutely nothing. Again brings in more disturbing thoughts to mind for me. No in November.

apple - I don't understand your comment. Can you please explain what you mean.

John, H
Well I see this morning another post was shut down due to name calling and such of a chldish person.I think this is just this persons responsibility for the GOF or the TF to get these post shut down.I would think the NP would ban thisperson instead of shutting down a post but I guess I am wrong.

*******************

mm, the mods had no choice. i am happy to see that the page and its discourse stands. closing comments with no deletion of the discussion is the best option available. public commentary is preserved.

I understand exactly what you are saying but it also was just one persons objective to get this done.This person should have their post removed for calling names and degrading people but it seems as if the community as a whole suffers for the actions of one.

apple - I must have missed something. The only person on here calling names or being juvenile seems to be you. In fact, you consistently name call, insult, and have admitted to intentionally posting inflammatory remarks with the intent of "getting a rise" our of mm.

I am not certain how you perceive that to be "supporting the schools." My guess is the GOF/TF would prefer you not post their inner thoughts here for all to see.

I would hope these people who are volunteering would go back and llok through the articles about this issue and what their group started out as a grass roots group and see where the politician and the heartland group has taken them at this point and how they have divided the community.I would hope the NP would leave this post open instead of closing it for no good reason.It almost seems as if the people it affected were mad and ask for it to be shut down.

*

***********************************************************

apple - you are off the mark yet again. h & I often disagree - we have simply agreed to disagree and be respectful of each other. We DO agree that agreeing to respectfully disagree is a healthy part of any relationship.

I also don't always agree with mm, pops, yougotta & others, but I don't resort to name calling and intentionally making inflammatory comments to divert the discussion.

As you and I agreed before, we each have to live with our own conscience. I am good with mine and you already indicated you were good with yours. You have also witnessed mm not taking bait you intentionally set for him on another post Hopefully, you will resist the urge to be rude and simply participate in the clash/sharing of ideas here.

John,
See that is what it all boils down to.Being able to agree and disagree without calling names and degrading people.Which where I am at with the Tf or OCOF group they simly choose not to engage our area of town and listen to out ideas and opinions on what we think the direction of the schools need to go and as you can see I am very hung up on the COMMUNICATION issue and actually expect the TF to communicate will all and all areas to do what is right for our schools and I yet to see it.I do not believe the levy in it current form is the way to go and will not vote for it.I also have issues with the way the district has treated the general public and their unwillingness to communicate as well with the public.As you said in one of your other post people are sick of getting things down their throats and it is time they begin to listen to us.

Communication is the KEY to everything in our lives and these people should be educated enough to understand this.It would be like me going to work and not Communicating with my employees and then jumping their butts for not getting something done because I failed to communicate it to them.

apple - mm didn't take the bait last night.

I don't see how h bluffing (or lying, as you will call it) to try to flush your identify from the shadows is name calling, or making degrading inflammatory remarks. You might not like it, but that's your problem. Just like it is my problem when I don't agree with someone else's perspective; like I don't agree with your desire to exclude less affluent areas of town from the community engagement process. I don't call you the names I think you are. Rather, I attempt to engage you in thoughtful conversation and understand from your perspective.

You should try it sometimes, it can be quite enlightening. For example, I learned today that pops' main issue is trust and he might someday support getting rid of the sunset. Or that hcat found some really interesting resources for community engagement.

That's the problem with the GOF/TF/OCOFOD, they are so afraid they are going to loose control and power and they might not know everything. We have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason - we are supposed to listen twice as much as we talk!

OCOFOD, geez - what a mouthful. Can we just shorten it to OCD, sort of like the personality disorder. Seems more fitting anyways given the number of times they have reincarnated themselves.

Yougottabekiddingme,
Yea who knows who they are from day to day.I do not even think they know.Maybe this is why they do not communicate with the entire community they are to busy changing members and their name all of the time.
John,
You are right I did not take her bait and will not and will not even engage a person who I find very offending and a degrading person as she is.Especially when it is done to children of a different area of our community and to label a group or area of towns people as she has.My replys will be *.

Sometimes, I think those of us "out of the loop" tend to think idealistically instead of realistically. By that, I mean, if I work in the school district main office or am on the board, or am a politician, I am thinking "winning" and "power". If you have power, you want to keep it. You do that by winning. What does that have to do with transparency? Nothing, if you want to win and stay in power. The question is do we, the underlings, have faith in those with power to do what is right for the children. If they don't answer questions from us about our children, how can they expect us to further trust them with our children? Much has been made about only campaigning in areas of town where positive voters will be located. It is a good idea, if winning and power is what it is about. If not,...

****************************

apple - the point is you engage the community and build a consensus BEFORE you attempt a levy campaign.

The method you propose is exactly what the GOF is doing - are you sure you aren't one of them - you certainly know chapter $ verse of their religion. However, in a community initiative you count the no's and maybe's as a no and only the yeses as a yes. The idea is to build a consensus so you have as many yeses as possible and exclude as few as possible. That is NOT what has happened this time!

regarding "those I oppose act like that backyard bully." You seem to want to take the moral high road. The problem you have is if you wish to be perceived in that manner, you must actually TAKE the moral high road and not respond. My perception of you at this point is that you initiate much more than others. You have the opportunity to change that perception by your behavior.

oops should read "chapter & verse"

apple - I agree that it gets old listening to someone who wants to constantly portray him/herself as a victim (not agreeing that southenders do that). The question in my mind is what stimulus in the victim's environment is causing them to choose to victimize him/herself?

The reason many question your identity is that many within the SJSD have confirmed they have someone posting comments here on their behalf. Your comments appear to consistently support the BOE & SJSD. So inquiring minds want to know.

No apple I will engage you on this and you are way out of line and are a HIPOCRITE.And no apple the people in the NE like you are the reason we do not trust your damn group.Not all people in the NE arethis way but you fit the mold and we are just sicvk and tired of people shoving things down our throats and have had enough and when we speak up you all do not like it well I here to tell you better get used to it or you can maintain your little attitude toward other areas of this community and do without a school because this community will never vote to pass a bond to biuld you one.So I hope you are working for thew board and are their little spy and I hope it copmes out who you are and the district looks like the laughing stock they are.You are such as piece of work.By trhe way go to the southend and express these views of your in the public very loudly I dare you to.

They all are aa bunch of bums throw them all out and start over.I am glad to see a person posting that has no children in school and yet fails to understand where parents are coming from.Craw back into you nice little NE home and shut yourself in please.Or get out ion the community and get ride of your oneside opinions and start listening.Talk about whinners look no further apple is here.

Who else would it be posting for the SJSD? It surely isn't H or John Cor Yougottabekiddingme.So that kind of eliminates quite a few.Pretty much leaves drbjr,and apple.

How do you think these negative attitudes come out it is because we see the mess the SJSD and their attitude toward the concerned parents concerns so where does that leave you?You can be the pro district spokesman if you want but until you walk a mile in the current parents shoes then you have no idea what is going on within the school and for the children,Teachers and parents.I know you will disagree with this but like I said you do not see it.

I would like to see teachers and staff post on these comments. I would like to know, from those on the inside, what they truly think. I understand their need for pseudo-names. That's fine. They are the ones who can honestly tell the rest of us what the St. Joseph School District is really like. By all rights, their comments should make up most of this section, which is fine with me. I would like to know if teachers and staff believe that this school district is/is not going in the right direction. Being there daily, they should know.