The unemployment rate nears 10 percent. Many people are experiencing wage freezes or layoffs. Some businesses have shut their doors.
Anyone trying to get any tax or levy passed these days can count on opposition from at least one source: the economy.
During a recession, even people with jobs are reluctant to vote for a tax or add more expense to their budgets, according to Patrick McMurry, economics professor at Missouri Western State University. It's called the paradox of thrift, he said. In difficult times, people decrease their spending at the same time they increase their savings.
"In a difficult time, people who lose their jobs are of course going to vote against it, but people who have their jobs won't vote for an increase in their taxes," Dr. McMurry said. "St. Joseph is better off than many places in the economy, but still that means selling a tax increase or even renewing a tax is really an uphill climb in a recession."
In April, voters rejected renewing and making permanent a 63-cent operating levy that was first approved in 2004. Voters also rejected $45 million in construction bonds for two new elementary schools. At that time, a group known as "Citizens Against Forever Tax" opposed removing the sunset clause.
Now a citizen's group, "Our Children. Our Future. Our Decision," is running a campaign to restore the 63-cent operating levy on Nov. 3, this time with a five-year sunset clause. But the economy might be even worse this time around.
Average weekly wages nationwide fell 2.5 percent over the first quarter this year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This is the largest year-over-year decline in U.S. average weekly wages since 1978.
Jason Park, campaign co-chairman, said what helps in this economy is the fact that the 63 cents is a tax that people have paid for the past five years. And investing in education helps combat unemployment in the long term and helps keep a short-term rise in unemployment from turning into a long-term problem, he said.
"There's no doubt when you're talking about 10 percent unemployment, that's a problem but, in the grand scheme of things, it may be a short-term problem that we can keep a short-term problem by investing in education and making sure that the kids that are getting that education have a better chance at having a good job later," Mr. Park said.
Dr. McMurry said the school tax levy will be a tough sell for basically two reasons. One is the economy. Another is that there is a much older population in St. Joseph.
"People who don't have kids in school don't see how education will benefit them ever again," Dr. McMurry said. "They think it just benefits the kids, but that's not true. Education is a public good."
He added that school districts across the country are facing financial problems due to lower property taxes, a major source of revenue for a school district.
"The school district is between a rock and a hard place," Dr. McMurry said. "They desperately need the additional money the most in a recession, but that's the time people are least likely to vote for it. They're going to have to really get their message out and they're going to have to make sure everybody who is pro-education votes."
Alonzo Weston can be reached at alonzow@npgco.com.
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mm1967 says...
Problem is not only is the ecoonomy bad and people are losing their jobs the district also faces challenges from voter for the mess they have put our schools in since the levy failed in April.
Also there is another group out thereopposing the levy as well and sending out flyer as the ocof group is as well.This will also be a tax increase and people will look at it this way because it was taken away and this will be a new tax and people will see a increase again in their taxes.
OCOF group does not understand a few dollars a month when people lose their jobs is alot for those trying to keep their homes and familys taken care of.For some this may be money for simple things some of do not worry about like milk,eggs,bread,clothing for their children.Some have lost their jobs have lost their healthcare as well and now have to worry about medical expenses for their family's.So do not bash these people for not supporting this levy and not voting for it.I will not vote for it because it does not address the long term financial needs of our schools and for the underkying issues the district has caused for our children,familys;and teacher since the levy failed in April.And because the district has a trust issue to do what they say they are goingto do with our tax money and their inablility to engage the community and treat the public right.
October 25, 2009 at 12:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
MM, I guess I don't understand what you mean when you say you will vote no because it's not enough. My Grand-Father was an undereducated old gentleman with more common sense than you would imagine, who raised 10 children through the Great Depression, and he had a Motto,,,"If you can't get a WHOLE Loaf, don't turn down a Half of a Loaf" , which means THIS to Me,,,,, SOME is WAY better than NONE !
Thanks Grand-Pa, GOD rest your soul !
Blessings
October 25, 2009 at 1:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
OldMac says...
To beari404,
What are you talking about!? The $0.63 was defeated last year so as of last April it came off of the tax roles. The district told us they would close schools, and reduce staff if the bond and levy did not pass. You can blame this Board, but the problems they are facing are from our last Superintendent and the last Board. These are all things that should have been done 10 years ago, but they didn't want to rock the boat.
As far as the reserve, they are already using it to run things this year. It is there in case of an emergency. I bet those of you that are opposed would be the first to complain if the money wasn't there and we needed it.
Times are tough for everybody. This is the time to pull together instead of only thinking of ourselves.
October 25, 2009 at 6:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
OldMac, here is another example of seniors being unable to afford this tax, it has Nothing to do with us being greedy or not wanting to help our community, or Hating our children.
My wife takes a breathing medicine that retails for $360.00 per month, and her medicare has removed it from the list of medicines they will cover, with NO Exceptions, due to a Heart condition she can not use albuteral because it makes her heart race upto 180 beats per minute and causes angina, then she has to take nitro. Our hands are tied, there is NO WAY she will be able to take it as directed, we bought a 1/4
order of it for $89.95 and even had to Charge that until the social security comes the 3rd. Check it out for yourself, the name of the medicine is Xopenex, pronounced
Zo pen X I have NO clue what we will do !!
October 25, 2009 at 6:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
"They're going to have to really get their message out and they're going to have to make sure everybody who is pro-education votes."
-----------------------------------------------------
the implication here is unacceptable. not everyone who will vote no on this levy is ANTI-education. quite the contrary. i certainly hope that this quote is taken out of context, because this kind of blanket statement is so simplistic it is insulting to the intellect.
I blame the "handlers" of the two couples who are representing OCFD for not being perfectly clear with mr. parks about the nature of the levy proposal and its income stream. while parks seems to be a record stuck on the one line "its not a new tax" chant, i wonder if anyone has told him that this vote is not going to change the revenue stream for the district ONE IOTA until november 2010.
the economist is right. times are Really Hard. why would anyone vote yes on a tax which is only going to be a piece of paper on file somewhere for an entire year when we can afford to wait and see how the economy turns? why take the half a loaf when in a year the full loaf Supported By The Entire Community is within our grasp?
i am a PRO education voter who will vote against this half measure. the district is NOT starving, but Families are.
October 25, 2009 at 8:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
I was reading the post in It's your call from the 24th and saw a post from MorganHawman which was a teacher here for 32 years.
Remember she wrote a letter to the editior last March and because of that letter which really she was expressing her opinion on things the district could do to save money and her opinion to the district to work with the community and gains it trust back.I think this article was March 25th of this year.
But as a result of her letter our lovely Superintendent it seems had black balled her took her off of the subsitute list and will not let her teach.It also seems as if one principe has told her staff to not let her even in the biulding.These are her words in her post in it's your call from yesterday.
I personally have a problem with this and how MRS SMITH could do this to a person who has taught in our district for 32 years as was willing to take a pay freeze and do her part as she wrote to help the district,the children, and the schools.Here you have a teacher that must have done a good job she did it for 32 years.
This just goes to prove Mrs Smith does retalitate against people and I also believe after reading that she did close schools and redistrict to retaliate toward the community.Things like this also do not help the district cause when they act like this toward people and their own staff.Morgan Hawman also after all of this asked in her post fr the community to vote yes just shows she is a bigger person then Smith but things like this only hurts the district further.Morgan Hawmans post is yesterdays it your call.
October 25, 2009 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momof3sons says...
Good point, apple. Also, many senior citizens will qualify for a credit, which is a refund of the property tax that they have paid. So this really will not apply to the senior citizens who are on a limited budget. So many people are complaining of the increase, but tell me this, can you pay your bills on the amount of money that you brought in back in the 1980's. You expect the school district to do that. They were responsible and saved money back to pay the expenses for a while. Thank goodness, I would of hated to see schools close because we didn't have money in the reserve accounts to pay for them to remain open. The reserves will not last forever though. The cuts have not been great yet, but if the district has to exist on the money that they received in the 80s we will see many big changes.
October 25, 2009 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
momof 3 sons,
It may be true that the seniors get a tax credit but for one seniors like the gentlemen above that has to buy medication for his wife on his budget maybe when he has to pay his taxes he has to use his medication money and then will have to wait for his tax credit.It is about living in the now and and the future is waiting for a credit they may get or may not and spending money they have one hand for medicine and food.
So see it does and could have a imediate inpact on the seniors.
October 25, 2009 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
This also affect people who have lost their jobs and have children and do struggle to make ends meet every month no matter if you and I can maybe they actually cannot.Also just seen the OCOF commercial and one thing they have said on there was a good education helps our economy and brings jobs true as this is you have to have jobs to pay taxes and that is something St Joseph is lacking and has been for years.Do they just now after all of these years just realize this.I mean have we not beeen educating people for years and we still have no jobs.Come on people this tax even if pass in a few day will not even be collected till the following year so why not wait till next year being that they have till august and would get the revenue at the sametime to let the economy turn itself around.Some reason they want to push this through and not work wit hthe community and get the levy right.
October 25, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
Apple, stop it with that quote. The NP got it wrong and took it out of context. Sarah indicated that ACE will not run an organized opposition campaign - which we are not. That is completely different that speaking out against something as an individual.
October 25, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple they said they will not make budget choices till next year it was in one of the other articles.
Apple they have enough to operate till they get a levy passed that is right and the economy shows signs of growth in the job sector.
October 25, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple you have been told several times that ACE as a group is not working against the TF and I also seem to remember Heritage telling you she was invited to and had a meeting with Mr Kirby and Mr myer of the TF not to long ago and had respect for them.If she is speaking out it is for hereself not ACE.Apple one could ask you why you have flip flopped and said a couple of month ago you were going to vote no and now all of sudden you are going to vote yes.
October 25, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple let try real hard on your part not to get this post shut down as well.Iknow its hard for you.
October 25, 2009 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
It happens with such frequency, one wonders why the NP lets apple keep posting.
October 25, 2009 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yougottabekiddingme says...
mm, you ask: "Apple one could ask you why you have flip flopped and said a couple of month ago you were going to vote no and now all of sudden you are going to vote yes."
I can answer that for you. Apple is missing a couple of body parts.
October 25, 2009 at 10:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
drbjr says...
Honestly for most of us Apple and mm1967 fall into the same catagory. Wonders that both haven't been shut down.
October 25, 2009 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
drbjr,
I have looked back through several post and I seem to have people agree with me and I lok at apples post and seem to see not hardly any support for her post.I am sorry you do not like what I have to say but I have not revereted to calling names and degrading people over and over.So actually when you see a post of mine you really do not have to read it.Have a good day drbjr.As you say most of us do you have a mouse in your pocket and are speaking for them.
October 25, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
i am disappointed to see that the mods chose to completely delete the discussion on the "anti-levy" article because in between the lines there was good discourse. however, things disintegrated to the point that i believe they had no other choice.
the rules on this commentary are to protect all participants. when a poster consistently and willfully ignores the rules and violates the rights of the rest, that person should be permanently banned. from past experience, this is only going to get a lot worse in the coming days.
i implore those who post here not to be drawn over to the "dark side", however tempting it maybe, don't join in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sj89...
JUMP!!!!!
October 25, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rocketmom says...
Is there some place, a special place, a place somewhere else, where Apple and MM can play out their love/hate relationship? Anyone want to pitch in and get them a room?
October 25, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Apple,
I said I was willing to move forward from this point forward if you were.I did not say anything about taking aa week off.We can still be involved withthe debate but quit attacking each other and see each other side and debate that and have a open mind.
The other people you have mentioned are not involved I was talking about the 2 of us.I am willing if you are but from the post above I am just a little skeptical.
October 25, 2009 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thewatcher24 says...
you know why does the hate mail i get in my mailbox still have ken reeders address on the return tag?? i thought he was trying to get off this list with this organization? wonder whos address they will use? Maybe use one of the cowardly local businesses that are not backing the levy? i think thats a good idea, hey here is a better one have the opposition group go door to door wait they are a bunch of spineless cowards who know if they do go door to door they might get punched on a few doorsteps including mine. lets see who these businesses are! come on ken reeder we are calling you out tell us so we can get this trash out of st. joseph! yes trash thats what they are! Reeder has a shot at redemption lets see if he takes it!
October 25, 2009 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
heritage_sarahhochschwender says...
i do not give one whit about your continued posting of my comments which i made PUBLICLY. i have a completely clear conscience, and am able to post here under my full name because i have nothing to hide.
i do object strenuously to your flatly stating a complete fabrication and figment of your imagination as fact. your comments regarding involvement with axiom and the CAFT are absolutely untrue. you asked why i objected, because, in your mind, the two would achieve the same result?
answer: The End does Not JUSTIFY the means. i abhor the tactics used by axiom in the last effort and i would never participate in that kind of game playing. this issue is far too important to this community.
October 25, 2009 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
every elections have opposition and people may chose to remain unknown to us they may be busineses that we all do business with and have their reasons for not supporting this levy this is what our election process is for it is not set up to be oneside it is for all to be heard however they chose to do it.
October 25, 2009 at 11:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Orliandor says...
Go back to Florida, and take mm with you, PLEASE!
October 25, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Orliandor,
I am from here so I think I will be staying maybe you might goingto flordia I here it is nice this time of the year.I have also not seen any reasonable post on here from you all just attacks to certain people.I for your info grew up here and am sick of the status quo you people like it is time for change and change is alway painfull but I think it is coming.
October 25, 2009 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Orliandor,
One after though I can carry on a confersation with Heritage and you are correct she is from outside of our community but people from the outside can also see the way our community is divided and how close minded our community is and how teritorial our community is from the north to the south to the east and west sides of our community change is coming you may want to hold on.This community must come together and our leaders and new leader coming in the future such as Mayor coucil and school board members must start this process for our community to grow and move forward.Or we will remain in the dark ages.
October 25, 2009 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Heres a lightened up comment everybody enjoy the chiefs game.
October 25, 2009 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Roger_Maris says...
I was just wondering if anyone else notices that some people that post here think they are far more important than they really are?
They have their own opinion and are not going to change it. Most other people have their own opinion and are not going to change it. I believe they post (and post and post) only to give themselves a sense of importance. Trust me, you (and I) are not that important. Everyone has a right to their own opinion but some of us are sick of the same old rhetoric - other than for the entertainment value when you call each other names.
October 25, 2009 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tallest says...
Government -- and particularly holier-than-thou educators have yet to learn they are subject to the same supply and demand laws as the rest of us. Repeatedly asking for more money in this economy and after multiple "no" elections is selfish and arrogant.
Close some buildings and cut some programs, then maybe you have a case. If people want to pay for them, they will. Get rid of your entitlement mentality and we-execrete-vanilla attitude. We are not impressed.
October 25, 2009 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
johncourter says...
Apple, with due respect, I will not stop speaking out on this issue with my rationale. I have already been out in the community discussing the issue, have been so for some time when I am in town, and the more I discuss, the more validations I get for my rationale. This is the most important issue affecting this community above all else. The present direction does not support future state and I will not vote for something that has been proven to be ineffective. Sunset clause does not work, and I am not buying to the "re-authorization" or "re-establishing" process with this. I have no problem coughing up extra taxes for education, I however, want that money to go to future state, improvments, and into a bonafide project where we as a community have the confidence to take any outsider into any school in any part of town without concern or worry. Future state for every building and how the educuational process will proceed in improvement for teaching and educating our childern to prepare for the 21st century, 5, 10, 15, 20 years down the road and beyond. The educational process needs to be aggressive, progressive, and strong enough to attract new people, potential employers, and resources to help this community keeps its young people and economy competitive. Sunset clause does not get us there and it has been proven as such. Regardless of what the flyer says about "attracting employers" sunset clause does not aid in that in my view. It still sends a message of unstability and that thought process was clearly stated back in April. I will continue to speak out about this within the community throughout the coming week in various electronic mediums even though I will be away. I made the suggestion several months back to the administration and BOE directly that this should wait and come back to the table with the proper argument and engage the public wholeheartly to promote that cause. They choose to go with the reccomendations of the former TF who is now the OCOFOD. I believe that decision was not thought out clearly. If it was, I sincerely believe we would be hearing a lot more support for this from the administration and BOE. This is not what they stated what was needed back in April, it was made very clear what was needed back then. If we can stand the ground to re-argue the case and work to the get the confidence from the community to support investment in true future state, then we do not need it at all. In regards to a previous comment Apple, thank you. You know what I am refering to.
October 25, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nativejoe says...
After reading several comments I want to add additional views about the school district and levy situation.
I first want to say that the comments about the 32 year teacher needs clarification. The employee was not in a classroom all 32 years. Many of the years were spent in the district office finding ways to spend Title 1 funds for our district and doing personal things besides. This employee was part of the waste from the previous superintendent's lack of guidance.
To be bad mouthing the St Joseph School District now is ironic considering they were apart of the mismanaged Colgan administration. Their retirement now is being funded by hard working teachers who are not priviledged to have had the cushy job. Why did they slap the hand that currently in feeding them?
Dr. Smith doesn't need that kind of substitute teacher bad mouthing in each buliding they may be placed.
I agree with a previous comment that the levy should have never been put on the ballot with a sunset clause 5 years ago. The previous board and administration was looking for a quick easy fix. It's a shame because 2004 was not as bad economically than today. The adminstrator in charge then knew they would not be around to have to worry about the situation when the 5 years had expired.
Our superintendent has high expectations and sees further down the road than 5 years.
October 25, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
First nativejoe,No mattrer what the letter this teacher and administrator wrote was not bad mouthingfrom what I read and to get blackballed by Smith looks as if it was retaliation as it looks as if school closings and redistricting was retaliation as well to the public.She was not so perfessional when the levy failed in April was she.
Now everyone you see I told apple I would move forward and forgive for all the name calling and the degrading and keep a open mind if she was willing to do the same well I guess after reading her post she is not willing to do this .This tells you what type a person she is.Just like I have said she is a degrading,name calling person with onesidedd views not willing to keep a open mind and see peoples opinions withourt degrading them.Glad to see those true colors apple.
I quess I was the better person for trying.
October 25, 2009 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
drbjr says...
mm1967, you missed my point. It is not the substance of your posts, by the vitriol contained in both your posts and those of apple that were my point. In that regard you two are the same.
October 25, 2009 at 4:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Mrs Smith may have high expectations but she has to get through the voters first and at this point she is not batting very well 0 for 2 and in a few days I believe she will be 0 for 3.And before this record turns around she needs to learn some commuinication skill.How much of the voters do you think she can withstand before she is replaced?I seem to remember one of her students from Benton post a few weeks back to what type of a person she was and it was not a verey positive post.Sure or those of you that will say it was just one previous student but are teachers not suppose to leave a lasting impression on you that is positive not negitive?
October 25, 2009 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
I hope they were not relying on bad weather on the 3rd to keep voters away because it seem as if it is going to be close to 60 degrees and sunny for the day according to the 10 forecast.
Oh that's right on Monday the 2nd of November the school district will send letter home saying they are going to close the schools for a couple of days to the flu to keep people home with their children and away from the polls thats what they have been waiting for.
October 25, 2009 at 5:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
krazykanekool says...
These boards have gotten so out of hand, people need to put away their ego's and distrust and look at this rationally.
The fact of that the matter is that historically the SJSD is funded and supported at ridiculously low levels by this community. In the run up to the election in April all we heard about was the "forever tax". The oppositions organization was called "Citizens Against the Forever Tax" for Pete's sake! Roughly 7 months later the SAME group sends mailers opposing the new levy, even though this time it has a sunset. Although the group still has the SAME name, "Citizens Against the Forever Tax" now they are claiming that the administrators are greedy, do not care about their employees or their community, and are in it only to enrich themselves. If this fails and the SJSD has to go through another election the SAME cast of characters will come up with some more outlandish claims. These characters do not care about OUR community, they are in it for one reason and one reason only; IDEOLOGY. They are are against the idea of shared responsibility and any concept perceived as communal. Why are we letting ideologues dictate the future of our community? When is this town going to put it's foot down, step up and do what is RIGHT? Not what is easy, not what requires minimal sacrifices, but what is RIGHT? Times are tough, the future is uncertain, but I can't think of a better time to invest in OUR community for OUR FUTURE. This beautiful city has been down are her luck for too long, at some point WE need to look at ourselves and ask what we can do to give back and prop her up. You my not agree with the SJSD, who may not like the individuals who are in charge, but the remedy is not to withhold funds. We would only be hurting ourselves. Our school system should be the lifeblood of our community, not a whipping post. The comments on this forum have such a us vs them tone to them. This is OUR community. Dr. Smith is a member of OUR community, I would guess a majority of the staff are from OUR community. The SJSD isn't a evil, shadowy entity plotting of ways to irresponsibly spend money, divide the city, and hold down the poor. These are good people, your neighbors, your friends, that just happen to have one of the most important jobs in the world. Helping OUR children reach their potential and lead healthy, happy, fulfilling lives. Productive and educated individuals are the backbone of any thriving progressive community. I beg all those in earshot to vote yes in November. I'll be the first to admit the levy is not perfect, but it is a first step in making OUR schools system the top priority in a broader plan to ensure a bright future for OUR community.
October 25, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
You said one of the most important thing these people do have one of the most important jobs but they have been failing at them miseraly.Look no further then the mess in our schools that is proof in itself.Nobody posting here has said they do not want to provide for our school and some of us are from here and have grown up here and do not think the under funded levy is going to do what it is suppose to and they will be back in a couple years asking for more and how do you think that will go over.I tell you it would not.So some of us disagreewith the direction of the levy and think it is wrong w so thats the Main reason for my NO vote.Get it right and work with the community and people will siuport a levy not to mention this economy is going to be play a roll in this on Nov3rd.
October 25, 2009 at 5:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
krazykanekool says...
mm-Failing at them miserably? What do you base this claim on? MAP scores? I think we all know that NCLB is flawed and sets unreachable goals, but that is beside the point.
"Look no further then the mess in our schools that is proof in itself."
What mess? Can you be a little bit more specific? Are you referring to the redistricting? It was ugly but it could have been worse. It needed to be done. You could argue that the timing was bad, but excuses are easy to come by when trying to postpone difficult decisions.
The majority of the educators have done a great job given the resources they have to work with. Remember even before the defeat of the levy in April our funding was below many communities in Missouri.
Let's remember that the SJSD is made up of regular people, they are not infallible.
October 25, 2009 at 7:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Failing miserably I mean and some is the NCLB and it is not unreachable look we had school who reached it so that lame.
The mess in our school that redistricting and closing schools it is bad 350 or 360 students to almost 500 in our school I beg to differ with you this is just crazy and they have had no plan on what they are going to do with all of this over crowding and to get our classes back down to the size they were last year and this is just not in our school it is in several schools now.
I have no issues with our school teachers,principle or staff they all and let me repeat this they all have done a great job and do not deserve the hand their employer has dealt them.
We have some of the most caring staff I have seen and they are great.
I beleive and these are my opinipon till I am given reason to see and believe otherwise we have some verty coldhearted people downtown.
As I have said in post several weeks ago people at our school have called downtown and sent email to the board and admin to not only have the calls returned but to have no emails answered.So how id this being open,Honest, transparent,and communicating with the community.This all goes to these people stubborness to engage the community.It is simple and they could calm the anger they have created answer peoples call,address their concerns,Aand COMMUNICATE a little more and they would be surprised to what they get back from the community.I saw no need to redistrict since we have overcrowding issues at this point that is just crazy.They could have left these schools open this year and operated and engaged the community and we would not be where we are at today and just maybe we could be working for those new schools.They also have created division within the community and it is so easy to see and hear it is not funny.These are issues the board and admin can only address since they are the people who have createdd them not the TF.
October 25, 2009 at 8:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MorganHawman says...
To all of you hiding behind your usernames:
Please get pass all this and VOTE YES for the children and teachers of our community. If anyone should be upset, it could easily be me.....but I am moving on for the children in our community.
I am sorry that all this has been handled by the SJSD Board and Administrators in a way that has caused opposition but we must vote "YES" for the children. I voted "YES" last time and I will vote YES again!
If you want change, then YOU make it happen the next time there is an election for the SJSD Board.
October 25, 2009 at 9:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
krazykanekool says...
mm-you state "We have some of the most caring staff I have seen and they are great."
Then give them what they need to do their jobs effectively. You are not punishing the SJSD administration by withholding funds. You are punishing OUR community. Administrators come and go, OUR school district will be here long after Dr. Smith is gone.
October 25, 2009 at 9:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Morgan Hawman,
While I do respect your position I cannot support this levy for the simple reason it does not fund the schools for the long term and I personlly do not want to go through this again in a couple of years and the district said this is still going to put them in a distressed state so it is not the right way to go.I want better for my children.
They have till August elections next year to get it right with the community support and they would recieve the revenue at the same time as if this levy is to pass in November.So they have pelnty of time.
This also allows for new board members in April that will be more demanding of the administration.
Again I am sorry for the repercussions that our district took out on you for your letter it to me is just not right after 32 years of service.
I found nothing wrong with your letter.
October 25, 2009 at 9:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
krazykanekool,
I would if the levy was the right levy for the long term financial needs of the school.I instead will vote no till they engage the community and wprk withthe community with it support to pass a levy that is right for our school.I want better for my children and I do not want to deal with this in the next 2 years or so when they come back agin and ask for more money and you should know how hard this levy has been think about it the public would say we just gave you a levy a couple of years agao and do not ask us for anything till the current levy expires and that would be for the 5 years on this one.Not the way to go so I will vote NO.by the way I did vote YES/YES the last time and now I am one of the NO votes.I will donate money to our school and will help in any manner we can but this is just not the right way to go or really the right time.
October 25, 2009 at 9:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
I will vote YES if the district admits they were wrong in closing schools and redistricting so soon and not working with the community in the last 6 months since the levy failed to come up with a levy the public would support and then I will vote YES.They have already admitted this levy is going to still make them a distressed district before it expires and the community will not give anymore till it does expire if it passes. I do not see this happening.So I am sure I am a safe NO vote and sure there are quite a few more out there.
October 25, 2009 at 9:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MorganHawman says...
NativeJoe,
I didn't read your blog before I wrote my note and I believe this is slander against me. Title 1 funds for personal use??? and I was part of the waste from the previous superintendent's lack of guidance????
Ummmm You really don't know me but I do know that someone upstairs knows how I cared about the kids, the staff, and wanted the biggest bang for the Title 1 Money.
Why don't you come out from behind your username and explain exactly what you meant? You can even write to me at janeh@magiccablepc.com
For your information, I didn't bad-mouth the school district when I was subbing in the schools. I was only saying, in the blog yesterday, what I was told by a downtown person. Dr. Smith wanted me off the sub list for writing the letter and a Principal told her staff she didn't want me in the building. This all happened after I wrote my letter. How would you feel if you wrote an honest opinion and was treated that way? I have never been a slacker, cheater, or taken anything ...... and the right person knows that!
NativeJoe, Should I fear for my grandchildren who attend the SJSD schools? I should hope not!
I won't be on this blog again BUT
I will be voting YES for the children and teachers.
October 25, 2009 at 9:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
When you propose a revenue issue for a town as fiscally conservative as St. Jo is, you have to go by what you think you can get, not by what you necessarily want to get. If the district would have been better connected with the public in April, the bond issue probably would not have been there. But, they were not realistic and they definitely were not connected with main street. SOMEBODY in the main office has to be a contact person for the district. They have to have a dialogue. They can not sit in their offices and just make educational decisions. They have to relate to the public and their employees. I am sure that Dr. Smith, from an academic standpoint, may have been superior to Dr. Colgan. But Colgan has connections, constant dialogue and knows the attitudes of St. Joseph. You can berate what was done in '04, but you don't MAKE people vote your way. You have to work with them to help them understand your point of view. Like him or not, Colgan was definitely superior to Smith in that regard. This was his strength and what he brought to the table. Like it or not, they could use his talents now.
October 25, 2009 at 10:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
dillygent,You are right maybe Mr Colgan will lend them a helping hand and teach them a few things on how to engage the community.
October 25, 2009 at 10:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steve_O says...
I said I could not afford it, but let it be what ever it will. If it passes, I have no choice but to start Robbing People, NOT !
My GOD shall provide ALL of my needs according to his Riches and Glory, In Christ Jesus.
I hope I can hold out until the appointed time!
Blessings
October 26, 2009 at 3:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pops says...
Look folks, don't castigate apple for at least being able to see this thing logically. While apple and I disagree about whether a sunset clause is needed or if it's even in the best interest of the district, we DO agree that a compromise is on the table, and the funding needs to be reinstated. We can work out the specifics of how to make it permanent at a later time. I also agree with Steve_O about the difference between a whole loaf and a half loaf!! Great quote, Steve!!
To the poster who thinks this is a DOUBLING of the levy....PLEASE check things before you post!! The previous levy expired. It's no longer in effect. What is being proposed is REINSTATING the levy...the exact same amount...not doubling it.
It's been said, several times in this thread alone, that some of us are "hiding" behind our screen names. That is partially true. It might be worth pointing out that some of us post in other areas, as well, and sometimes, our opinions aren't all that well received!! Personally, knowing there are certain segments of our lovely community who aren't of the highest caliber (trying VERY hard to be nice, here!!), I don't feel it's a very wise thing to make opinions clear, with my full identity known, to those who might do more than just respond in a forum such as this!
Of course, I don't feel that way about the folks on THIS particular thread!!
Hey....HAPPY MONDAY to you all!!
October 26, 2009 at 5:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pops says...
That, apple, is something I didn't know. I'll keep that in mind at the ballot box next school board election.....
October 26, 2009 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
Yes apple she did ask them to only put one issue on the ballot the last time. But it still does not excuse her for her attitude toward the parents and citizens of this community.She cannot hide for ever and not address the community in her actions and what her plan is to deal with the overcrowding she has cause with redistricting and school closures.
The district has said this levy would srtill put them in finacial distress in a couple of years and if that is the case why would you proceed this way?
Why would you not work with the community for a long range paln that meets the long term finacial needs for our school BEING THEY HAVE TILL AUGUST of next year and would get the revenue at the same time as this Novembers election?
Are they scared to work with the community and come out from behind the walls of their offices?
Can they not engage the community?
See with them acting so harshly and quickly they are not planning just like when they closed schools and redistricted the schools and them they got hit with NCLB sanctions and had to let transfer and that into consideration and they knew that was a possibility.
I do not call this good leadership it is poor by all accounts.
Anybody out in the work force in a management position that let their business have the problems she has would be sitting on the unemployment lines.
Yes the voters told her no and I think next week they will again but the other issues and her inablility to work with the community and keep a open mind is not great job performance.
I hope the 2 new board members will keep her on a tight lease and hold her accountable for her actions unlike the board we have now.
Heres a idea for some send one of the board members and or one of the administrators and see if you get a response from them.I bet you will never see a reply in your inbox this has happened to several parents I know and have talked to and they have sent these months ago.
Throw the bumbs out and start over.
October 26, 2009 at 7:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lamplighter says...
nativejoe..I know MorganHawman and she is an excellent teacher who actively volunteers in our community..Dr. Smith was dead wrong to blackball her from substitute teaching..as I recall this is the same school administration ( don't forget Dr Smith is Dr Colgan's handpicked successor ) that kept Ken Reeder on the substitute list for years despite evidence of misbehavior..what leadership skill does that behavior display? The district administration wants the voter to overlook personal differences for the good of the community...but, it's awfully hard to make that argument when not practicing what you teach..oops, I mean preach.
October 26, 2009 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mm1967 says...
lamplighter,
I also believe after reading Morgans letter that Mrs Smith retaliated toward here and would not let her teach and what about one principle telling her staff not to let her in their school.Isn't the school public maybe her grandchildren go to that school.How can they keep a person out of a public place and a school she pays her taxes.I would like for Mrs sSmith to explain that one why this principle thinks she owns a public biulding.Mrs Smith has blackballed the public as well and expecially the NEELY AND WEBSTER familys.Not tot mention 1400 children she uprooted for her person legacy she thinks she is going to k\leave behind.I do not think that will be a good one when she is gone.If this levy fails I hope all of the heat goes on her.
October 26, 2009 at 9 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justsayin says...
"apple October 25, 2009 at 10:07 p.m: I would still like to know where the money is coming form in the "forever tax" why can't Reeder name names since he claims he is no longer apart of it."
According to their 8 days out filing, Ken Reeder is STILL the treasurer. The word, "smarmy," comes to mind.
http://www.mec.mo.gov/CampaignFinance...
October 26, 2009 at 9:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dillygent1 says...
One other comment I have is that to criticize the community is stupid. The community is what it is and you will not change it by criticizing it. Smith, when she took the position, should have known that she was going to have to work in and relate to the community. She is not a politician in name, but she has to pass revenue issues. So therefore, if she is not, she better learn how to be one. Relating to Morgan-Hawman, who I understand was excellent at what she did. It was stupid not to let her sub. She was good at teaching and the district needs good subs of moral character, which I am sure she has. However, one of the other cruel realities in the world is "you don't bite the hand that feeds (fed) you". Nor, if you want to continue to work for an agency, do you give the impression of such. It WILL come back. As to the principals. SOME are quite honorable. Some just want to get downtown, so they tend to act like they are already there.
October 26, 2009 at 11:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
johncourter says...
MorganHawman, I also highly respect your position and the fact that you came out and spoke up on an issue previously that appears to have had some reprecussions. That is unfortunate and for those who were involved in those reprecussions, they fail to understand everyone has a voice and has a right to speak it without fear of that. It goes to the very core of another major problem within this community and since living here I have observed that time and time again. It is in my view also a core reason the city in general is the way it is on many elements.
However, MorganH, I do not agree with the present direction of this levy. I think the "desparation" factor for the argument of this is a weak argument at best. The district should not be in that kind of position for the day to day operational committments from existing financial resources. Any additional levy on top of existing resources should be used to improve and invest towards future state. I believe the results of NCLB are also a factor stemming from sunset clauses in the past. Because sunset clause creates unstability, the trend was to hoard financial resources instead of investing them to the future or educational improvements, status quo was maintained only. The argument to give this another 5 years I also disagree with. That has been the continual case over and over again throughout the decades and we have what we have because of it. Reading up on the last campaign of this in 2004, it is also my opinion that levy was sold under pretenses that never panned out.
October 27, 2009 at 12:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
johncourter says...
Regardless of intent, it was made clear back then after that levy, it may not be needed in 2009 and that is how it was sold to the public. It obiviously backfired and I know Dr. Colgan has stated that is not what he meant, however, the wording on the campaign clearly hammered that point The legal battle over funding came afterwards, not during.
All articles in the past several weeks that are in support of the levy in my view mis-represent the information. The data information is correct, however, it supports the rationale for a permenant levy, not for a temporary one We can spin it all we want, sunset is temporary. The information being presented for this campaign supports a permenant levy need, so the present rationale does not make sense. This levy request over time continues to come up for vote also validates the district wants it permenant. I have made my position clear and will continue to argue it throughout the coming week until the vote. With due respect to the OCOFOD, once again, the group does not speak for the entire community and there are differing and strong rationales that do not agree with them. Those rationales and the people who are behind them have a right to speak out about it without reprocussions.
I believe the sunset clause has hindered processes. I want to see this initiative fail and another argument for the true needs come back to the table next year, not 5 years from now and I want to see the administration, the district and even many of those within the OCOFOD fight and engage the public correctly and properly for what is truly needed for future state. I am not afraid to say this, i think the present direction is not good enough, the OCOFOD should have thec confidence to fight and engage the public to get the buy in for what is truly needed along with the district. I do not buy into the flyer message of "we addressed the public wishes" in regards to the sunset because I do not believe that to be the case of why it failed the last time. My rationale has nothing to do with any personal agendas or biases. I want to see the correct argument on the table to achieve what is truly needed for progression and future state. My vote is No for those reasons. Back in April, scores of the yes/yes supporters, the Chamber, this paper, businesses, high ranking people, the district, etc, severely "trashed" the sunset clause for being ineffective. We should not revert back to a process that does not work because of a percieved "black cloud". It is ironic if we do not get this thing figured out over time, the possibility the state may adjust an existing levy to get it up to standards with most other communities could possibly come into to play. Goes right to another argument I made earlier, if we cannot meet basic needs now with existing resources, then argue for a property tax re-distribution though the city. No in November. Argue for what is truly needed, or we do not need it.
October 27, 2009 at 12:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ApparentlySo says...
Why buy half a car when you need a full car? You can't drive half of a car. By the time you can afford the second half; the first half is no longer relevant and you then need to buy a third half to complete the car. Then everyone will scream, but we gave you enough money already to buy a full car. They'll scream and cry, you weren't open and honest. We can't trust you. blah, blah ,blah.
This results of this vote should be the same as the last vote. No.
To make the budget work, the district needs to continue cutting everything but education. That also means cutting staff to the lowest point possible and if that means to close more schools, then do what is necessary. Their long range plan at this point should be to assume they aren't going to get this levy continued, let alone additional monies on top of it in the near future.
If this levy passes now, in five years people will be screaming that they were told that's all the district needed.
October 27, 2009 at 5:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )