Unemployment threatens economic recovery nationwide and worldwide. The book FDR'S Folly records the things Franklin Roosevelt did that worsened and prolonged the Great Depression. Unfortunately, his ignorance of economics is also shared by our President and his Socialist advisors. They don't take criticism and won't accept advice. Tighten your belts; we are in for a replay of the Dismal Thirties.

In reference to "In the current campaign, supporting ads claim the sunset clause “ensures accountability.” In fact, it ensures not accountability but instability. Providing operating funds in this tentative and slipshod manner might comfort the civically suspicious but discourages long-term planning. It probably costs money in the long run.

It’s a poor way to do business,...." from "Levy allies have week for selling" by Ken Newton dated 10/27/09

This is a core point to why it is No in November for me. Once again here is another article where where the data and information support a permenant levy direction, not the present one.

Mr Courter--

Is it not better to pass the current levy, secure the additional state funding [lost because we fell below the state-mandated minimum level after the last vote], and work to solve any perceived problems during the next five years? It's certainly not the optimal plan. However, I would rather deal with that, than be subject to further cuts, erosion of services, and loss of quality teachers.

Everyone has their agenda. Some despise the Board. Some appear to be using this election as a springboard to political office. Some oppose taxes generally. However, what is really at stake is the education of our children, and the ability of our teachers to effectively teach.

What we fail to see is that we have till next August to pass a levy with community support as a whole that addresses the long term finacial needs of our school for we are not having this same disscussion every so many years.This would involve the district leader not a outside group engaging the community and earning some trust back.Also if this levy passes in November it would not be any different then passing it next August because the revenue will not be seen till the following year. So what's the rush.This levy has also been told to us by Mrs Pullen to still put the district in finacial distress before it is set to expire so you have to ask your self why then.Work with the community for the next several months come up with a plan for a long term levy also give the economy a chance to turn itself around and then put it to the voters.Also remember alot of the yes voters will now be no voters because of the sunset people who want long term finicial needs met for the school.We will as well will be voting NO in November.

I'd like to see the NP publish an interview with Dr Smith and BOE president Diane Watson stating what further cuts will be made if the levy doesn't pass and where monies will be spent if the levy passes. If the event the levy passes will tranfer policy be reinstated, will teachers receive back their retirement incentives, will classrooms receive new equipment..if the levy doesn't pass will more schools close? Which ones? Who will lose their jobs? Which programs will be cut?
The voters would like to have questions answered before voting and answering questions openly and honestly can make the difference in passage of this vote..What would the SJSD have to lose by giving such an interview and having in published in the NP? What would the NP have to lose in publishing an interview of this nature BEFORE the vote?
News Press Editorial Board..step up to the plate..ask for an interview and publish the answers..

still voting NO

mr saunders. you are surely savvy enough to know that this vote will not supply the district with any replenishment of funding , state or local tax) by its passing. we had a golden opportunity to use a full year to speak to the people about passing a comprehensive amount without the irrational sunset clause. the people who are working for the ocfd are nice well meaning individuals, but where were they the day after the TF got the nod to take the ball and run with it? nothing has even started until the last week. this is not an accident, it is chris roepe's campaign strategy.
_________________________________________________
"The key is not to convert the “no” voters but to mobilize the “yes” voters."

even newton sees this strategy happening. if this measure passes with thin turnout and with the support of the NE only it will rend this community in two. this city is prone to short term fixes. from our streets to our sewers..... you can see the erosion.

NO in NOvember would give the ocfd a chance to do the right thing and gain community input with ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE IN THE FINANCES OF THE DISTRICT.

I totally agree with Heritage's comment about how this community is only interested in the short term fix. The comment "The key is not to convert the "no" voters but to mobilize the "yes" voters" is not a new concept. It probably has been around since a vote was required to pass anything. The paragraph that interested me the most was the paragraph that talked about the percentage of high school displomas, college degrees (even though we have a university here) and the fact that the annual median income per household here is $8,000 behind. This is the vicious circle I have talked about. If you don't have a diploma, a degree and a low income in your household, do you support education? Do you see the need for helping the schools? For that matter, if you have a degree, how well are you paid here? Is the business community willing to help create an atmosphere of support for education by paying well? I have said before that I thought this administration was not good at community relations. It is MORE than just the school district having lousy community relations. It is also the business community, by keeping people down with low pay and little incentive.

dilly, i have always maintained that this city's generational poverty is our biggest obstacle to success. somehow, we must sever the head of that snake in order to be the community we have the potential to be.

my greatest opposition to the plan to build large schools is tied inextricably to this concept. the administration does not recognize, in fact has never even studied, this issue and the relationship small schools have to success with children of low SES.

In reference to "In the current campaign, supporting ads claim the sunset clause “ensures accountability.”

Wasn't the opposition's argument to the last levy based partially on the idea that without the sunset there would be no accountability to voters? Didn't the supporters say that wasn't true? Are the supporters now saying that they've changed their minds?

OfCourseWeCan: it appears that the people who touted the benefits of no sunset clause last time have no backbone. Very few in this town have the guts to stand up and fight for what they believe in.

Where's apple?

johncourter - Absolutely correct! The community has put nearly all the pieces together in this complex puzzle and now understand that simply maintaining funding for the district to do nothing more than have a status quo will do nothing in correcting the ills that exist.
There can be no support for increased funding at this time until the board comes forward with plans that equally address community concerns for all areas and more importantly defines meaningful actions toward greater educational excellence.
There are already too many examples that demonstrate money itself does not equate into a solution when effective planning is absent. These points have been argued and brought to the BOE many times now with absolutely no indication, with perhaps one exception, that the message is understood.

Ok if this levy passes whichh I believe it will not but if it does this is what as a parent I expect to see or I will vote no for ever on anything for the current leader of our schools.
1. overcrowding issues at the school they have created by redistricting and school closing taken care of this year.If it is trailers brought to those schools so be it.

2. Since the levy fail to address financial needs and they have addmitted it they must make further cuts and these need to be cuts in administrations positions downtown.Double up on the the work between the people who remain.

3. School books gotten for the children that still do not have them which is still going on we just saw a parent post this last week that their children still did not have text books.

4. Since their reason for taking the transfer policy away was the levy failed then I guess if it passes you need to reinstate the transfer policy.

5. Oh by the way you said you closed schools due to levy failing so if it passes really you should open the schools back up then shouldn't you.

6. All of the other services you all cut out the daycare programgs well I guess you should get those running right away if this levy passes.

So lets look at this since most or if not all of the above was done due to the levy not passing and this was the reason you the district gave the community for the above issues if this passes for you this time why is it so much for the community and the parents affected by all of the above not make a request that you get all of these services back up and running if you get the new levy?
This levy was no more or less then the previous one that failed and you said you would continue these services if the levy passed and if it did not you would take them away.
Expect your phone to ring if the levy passes and you do not restore the srevices you took away and told us if the levy passed in APRIL would remain and not taken away.

Come on administrators reading this where are your answers to some of the above mentioned issues?We know you are reading these post so how about some answers since nobody can get these by calling your offices.

If you are openly voting no on the levy then I hope some of you have the leadership abilities to put together a group that can unite this community and educate the masses to why we must fully fund our school district. If you do not plan on taking an active role in creating the future I would hope you would not do the community the disservice of creating more no votes.

In defense of the business community, wages are a function of supply and demand, nothing more. If you want to improve your earnings you must create a skill set that is in demand. The higher the demand for the skill set the more money you will make.

Boz44,
I actually agreewith your post and believe that there are people who are opposing this levy that can do exactly what you have said if given the chance.And this group could unite the community and the school district if they were willing to do their part and get a levy that addresses the needs of our childrens schools.
Actually boz for us we oppose this because of several reasons but I am also smart enough to know this levy does not meet the needs and I am willing as stubborn as I can get to work with the people in charge and a group that has the whole community's best interest at heart but I personally do not think thisis the TF way of operating and in the last few days they are showing their true colors.If it fail next Tuesday everybody must come together and work together for what is going to be right for our schools.Sure there will be a lot of both side not agreeing but this is how we will come up with what is right for our community's schools.This is what we should have been doing in the last 6 months not all of our bickering with each others side.It has got us nowhere and probably will be the same next tuesday.If this levy does pass all sides are going to still have to come together for the long term good of our schools or we will be divided more then we ever were.

boz, good comment. i do not believe this sunset is right. i believe the district has made it absolutely clear that with the passage of this levy they will be below acceptable funding reserves a full year before the expiration.

we made a good case before the BOE and nearly got in the door. that made some of the GOF mad, that a small group of Nobodies could upset their powerful applecart.

i am willing to bet that if the baton had ended up in the hands of true grassroots you would have had people cheering in the streets in a later election lining up to support an initiative which would have Fully Funded our schools across the Entire student population.

if the levy fails, we will make good on that promise.

So you see Boz there is a group out there that is willing and has the right people in place that would work for what is right for our children.This what I take from the post Heritage just made.The GOF are not working for the good of the whole community and I will leave it at that.

"mm1967 October 27, 2009 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Boz44,
I actually agreewith your post and believe that there are people who are opposing this levy that can do exactly what you have said if given the chance."

No one has to "give" a true leader a "chance." True leaders make their own opportunities and don't sit back waiting for others to give them chances.

NO in NOvember will renew that chance.

justsayin,
The GOF four are not true leaders they have failed to work for the good of the schools with the entire community.The TF started off a truer grassroots group and then turned into a political driven machine.
The only reason the ACE group was not given a chance was it did not have a hugh money trail and the other group did and OCOF fell into the lines of what the district wanted not the entire community.

dang mm. that was downright poetic!!!!!!!

Boz44, relating to your answer to my post. When you are talking about skill set, are you talking soft or hard skills. Are you talking about ability to do the job, or the ability to get along on the job. From everything I understand about the picture, most employers complain about soft skills (with people they don't pay well to). Soft skills include getting along with each other, punctuality, conscientiousness on the job and willingness to work hard. I never hear a complaint about the inability to do the job, only in the attitude of the person doing it, the soft skill. When you talk about lack of skills, how do you address the fact that we have a university on the outskirts of town that continually puts people in the work force and even sometimes helps place them in larger schools for post graduate work? I am sorry but I just do not buy your skill set comment.

I have to commend Ken Newton and the SJNP for actually publishing this article. I just might renew my subscription. I canceled it for the lack of support on the last vote, but I have to say that you guys have stepped up to the plate this time. Too bad most of these negative people on this blog did not hear what you were saying. I think they need to go back and read the article again. You know, that's what they have to do in 1st grade. If you didn't comprehend what you just read, then go back and read it again 'till it sticks.

In regard of who the players are - according to the Missouri Ethics Report the COFT received $35,000 form teamsam form Chicago in October - teamsam is the fundrasing arm of the Sam Adams Alliance which is also in Chicago. The Sam Adams Alliance is a non profit organization which takes no federal money but is funded by private funds. The Sam Adams is a watchdog group concerned with goverment waste. A group from Sam Adams is the American Majority. This group sets up training in cities across the United States including Kansas City to get ordinary citizens involved in polotics.

From thier website is the following of their mission statement -

Educational freedom expanded and the power of the unions reduced or removed from our schools is an example of this principle advanced.

Their web site contains many articals concerning privatizing schools. It is clear after reading much material of both the Sam Adams Alliance and the American Majority - this group wants to take goverment out of our lives, fight against taxes and public schools.

What is concerning is that they hide their donors and a group that demand transparency from goverment oonducts itself in the complete oppositte. This group has fought agaisnt a Kansas City trasportation tax, Platte City Parks and Recreation Tax and many local taxes. (more in second post)

it is the goal of the American Majority is to get their people invovled in the local level of city, civic and school board elecitons.

It is clear the people agaisnt the school district and the funding from teamsam which is Sam Adams Alliance is wanting to convice the citizens of the St Joe community to turn on their own to weaken the schools. This cannot be more apparent than the pieces of mail we are receiving.

Now for the past month we have seen posts from many whos message seem to be in line with those from the American Majority and Sam Adams. It is clear we have those in our community which has brought this funding into the fight. We must now question anyone of opposition if they have ever attend or have any connection to these groups duirng the school board election.

looks like someone got a new isp.

Heritage, I'm uninformed. What's an isp?

Heritage,
One could only hope not.I thought the same.

dilly, it is a computer identification. when someone can't post here anymore it is a way around the system.

i have never heard of a record company called sense. ( that is an inside joke>)

I have read to many times these posts go into personal attacks and no debate over material presented. I wish not to engage remarks toward me however I am more than happy to discuss what I posts if those who feel they may add to the argument or the debate.

Sence,
I am confused I did not see any remarks made toward you.

the community must now consider our schools are under attack from an organized group local connecitons operating in the shadows to damage our schools. This is not about the admidistration, expenses, school closings. This is about an overall national movment, teaparties and very carefully crafted campain to remove the public schools. They care not about our community, our children or even those that are from St. Joseph who has aligned themselves with them. They hire axium and care not how they achieve their goals. They prey on negativity, fear, envy.

Mr. Saunders, with due respect, the answer to your question is no. It is not always best philosphy to argue under a perceived "desparation" scenario to get money any way possible. It has been proven the sunset clause is ineffective and the current state of our educational processes are clear evidence. As a tax payer and citizen, I do not want to see this argument five years from now, I want to see it argued for correctly and the confidence to engage the public properly to move it foward. I believe the OCODOF and the CAFT are sending the wrong messages to support their cases. My argument is based on solid rationale and there is no agenda behind it. Both of these groups do not speak for all members of the community and that thought process is in my view a key element why many groups struggle with their causes. This argument should be made by district staff, administration, and BOE. They should bring to the table the correct approach, own the argument and engage the public to get the majority buy-in from every area of town, not just specific areas. In my editorial, I stated how I thought that could be achieved. If this present direction is really the best we can do for our schools, then I want to see every staff, administration, and BOE member sign off on a letter of acceptance that they totally support a sunset clause as the best solution and it is the best we can do in St. Joseph and nothing more. I want to see them own this argument, not a community group. A community group is pushing this initiative, not the district. In my view there is a silent disconnect associated with that. Boz44, I respect your comment,October 27, 2009 at 1:57 p.m. Interesting post, however, every citizen in this community has the right to speak out on this issue regardless of how much or how little they may or may not be directly involved and I am one person who encourages people to speak out. Participation in a group or lack of should not be a requirement. Sometimes groups do not always get it right, regardless of intentions. I think any board, staff or administration of any public entity that provides public services and utilizes tax dollars should listen to individual citizens once in a while. People have legitimate reasons for not participating in groups. And many are involved in the community in other ways. People have the right to speak out and the public has the ability to weigh in on whether or not they agree with those individuals. I encourage respectful debate in regards to that. I will support a tax structure and plan for investment in future state and a solid argument for it, not things that do not work. We all know this will not go away until a permenant levy is re-presented. The articles I read in support of the sunset clause, the info supports a permenant need, not a sunset one. I stand by my argument. It is No in November based on my rationale. Bring it back to the table for what is truly needed and argue it correctly.

I just watched the movie Swing Vote and all of the dirty little games both sides of these politicians in this movie remind me of the TF sneaky little doings.

In regard of who the players are - according to the Missouri Ethics Report the COFT received $35,000 form teamsam form Chicago in October - teamsam is the fundrasing arm of the Sam Adams Alliance which is also in Chicago. The Sam Adams Alliance is a non profit organization which takes no federal money but is funded by private funds. The Sam Adams is a watchdog group concerned with goverment waste. A group from Sam Adams is the American Majority. This group sets up training in cities across the United States including Kansas City to get ordinary citizens involved in polotics.

From thier website is the following of their mission statement -

Educational freedom expanded and the power of the unions reduced or removed from our schools is an example of this principle advanced.

Their web site contains many articals concerning privatizing schools. It is clear after reading much material of both the Sam Adams Alliance and the American Majority - this group wants to take goverment out of our lives, fight against taxes and public schools.

What is concerning is that they hide their donors and a group that demand transparency from goverment oonducts itself in the complete oppositte. This group has fought agaisnt a Kansas City trasportation tax, Platte City Parks and Recreation Tax and many local taxes. (more in second post)

it is the goal of the American Majority is to get their people invovled in the local level of city, civic and school board elecitons.

It is clear the people agaisnt the school district and the funding from teamsam which is Sam Adams Alliance is wanting to convice the citizens of the St Joe community to turn on their own to weaken the schools. This cannot be more apparent than the pieces of mail we are receiving.

Now for the past month we have seen posts from many whos message seem to be in line with those from the American Majority and Sam Adams. It is clear we have those in our community which has brought this funding into the fight. We must now question anyone of opposition if they have ever attend or have any connection to these groups duirng the school board election.

mm, Swing Vote was a pretty good movie. Have you ever seen the movie "Wag the Dog"?

Yougotta,
I have not seen wag the dog please fill me in.I rad a little about the movie.Are you saying they(TF) are trying to divert attention to something else.

Actually, no, just thought it was a good movie that you might like. But now that you say it, there are probably some parallels. ; )

sense, I am in agreement about people from outside a community trying to push an agenda on that community. However, what has the school district done to counteract such an attack? I feel they have totally lacked in community involvement, dialogue and sometimes, even civility. St. Joseph, for somebody just moving in, is often a hard town to break into. If out of towners can make that much of an impact, it is because the entity that they are attacking was weak to begin with. I am even more concerned about somebody from here contacting these out of towners than the fact they are here. If it is the business community that is behind this, we are in far worse shape than I thought, because it is our own business community who will both sell to and employ the graduates of these schools.

dillygent I would agree with most of your posts, however spreading negativity has always been easier and faster to spread. This community is ripe for this kind of campaining.

Many here posting believe we have many problems but if you sit back you will find our challenges are not unlike so many in comparision, we are not the bad off.

Our unemployment is lower than the state average
Our schools perform at the level of most districts
Economicaly we have increased our business parks, almost incresed our retail by 500% in the past five years
our services in the city rank amoung the best in the state in police, fire services.
Our crime rate is lower than most

This community has problems but not unlike many others, we need to stop being so hard on ourselves will working constructivly to improve and overcome the challenges we face.

Also consider our geographic area and the political climate. This is a very far right area and the grass roots movement of removing goverment and goverment spending is spreading like wild fire. What is puzzeling is that those who are helped the most by goverment services and pay the least for them are the ones more likly to pick up this cause.

Sence,
I think if you took into consideration the unemployment rate is higher because of people running out of benefits and no londer being tracked for unemployment numbers and still have not found work.
And as far as business parks Mitchell Woods was great but you have to think how many of those jobs were new or just were jobs taken by displaced workers from,Quaker Oats,Stetson Hats,Snorkel,Skyjack,Friskees on lower lake rd,Smurfit Stone Container,Precision Molding,Mead Product so in reality Mitchell Woods was job replacement not job creation.
Our city's economy is in bad shape from where I stand looking at it.

Concerning unemployment numbers that holds true to anywhere in the country so comparing our rate which is below the state average is acceptable. As for replacing jobs in todays enviorment, that is doing pretty good and shows the city is aggressive and not just allowing jobs to go away. Keep in mind not all retail jobs are minimum wages, many managers and mid mangagers work at those locations. You may stay negative if you like, I look for constructive solutions and encourage positive outlook to overcome obsticales.

Actually, I think I am thinking positively. We do have a lower unemployment, but look at where these jobs are? They, as is the country, are turning into service sector jobs, which are often minimum wage. Years ago, when Mr. Lilly was city manager, I heard that when he was trying to deal with city employees who wanted pay raises, he told them that they had to face the fact that we were a bedroom community and salaries would be low. The only reason I bring that into the discussion is because he went on from city manager, to become the head of the chamber of commerce. That does not sound like a positive viewpoint from the head of the chamber of commerce. The schools need more funding but the schools need somebody who has a plan for civic involvement, a thing I discussed with Apple not so long ago. But, the problem that has to be faced in order to turn it into a positive, is what can the employers do to make the job of the teacher a better and more positive experience?

My positive comment was more directed toward mm dillygent, again I don't beleive we need to drink the kool-aid, however a more proactive and constrctive approach. You are correct in your remarks. The city needs to sell itself, we have great trasportation, railroad, rive, major interstate, international airport close by, we have more than any other city our size. We have built up retail and services, however, educated workforce is where we get triped up. Interesting that Mr. Lilly went on to be the PR man for Triumph after the chamber. I do believe we have very good leadership at the chamber at this point.

dilly - as always you show the chip on the St. Joe shoulder, I never said anything about St. Joe's skill set, I only quoted a very good econ teacher I once had, nothing more.

JohnC - I do not always agree with what you say or do but I do respect your intellect and opinions. But, I never said someone shouldn't speak out, what I said was I thought speaking out and not being part of the solution was a disservice to the community.

Boz44
Ask yourself where these chips on people shouldrers came from!!!!!.
And it is pretty clear the district has done nothing to help with this issue and people removing their chips as you call it and now we are where in the position we are in today with our schools.Years in the making and now it has come back to bite hard.

Honestly mm I do not know where your anger stems from, however your negativty does not offer solutions.

Really sence it is not anger it is common sence you can see it out in the cmmunity and hear it out in the community.These are just part of the district problems they must find a way to solve in the community.Its is something we must put behind ourselves before long term planning for new schools can move forward.
Now the levy is a different issue we need funding for our schools but one that provides funding for our schools for the long term and we do not have to go through this issue every couple of years.One the board and admin work with the community on that the community will support.
I might ask you to keep a open mind and see thing from a different prospective on the levy issue.

As Yoda once said fear leads to anger, anger leads hate, hate leads to the dark side.

Boz44, you were just sounding so authoritative, I just offered a counter-comment. I think that the problems of the community and the problems of the school district are intertwined. A child in our school system, as he or she gets older and starts to think about a job and the preparation for that job,wants to know what St. Joe will be able to offer. Our 3 largest employers are number one, a not-for-profit hospital; two, a pork plant; and three, SJSD. Somehow I doubt that numbers one and three can be considered manufacturing, and I really doubt that slaughtering hogs can be considered manufacturing, either. If that child has parents that are well-heeled, he/she can probably go out of town to school and get a job in another city. The child that does not come from a well-heeled family, will probably be competing in the St. Joseph job market. I think that is the problem that the school district has. What kind of jobs does St. Joseph offer to the student who excels in academics, but may not have the monetary support, to do what his wealthy counterparts can? By the way, Boz, looking at various sides of a situation is not negative.

Sence
I have no Hate in myself I was raised to not hate.I was raised to dislike things and to try to make the things you dislike better.Hate is something I will never do and will never instill in my children.

I was simply saying a line in a movie.

dilly, if everyone can have an opinion why is my opinion that people who are creating no votes through what they say do a dis-service if they are not part of the effort to make things the way they think they should be. I never once said people didn't have the right to say whatever the want. We have had many brave and honorable men and women die to make sure we can speak our minds.

Boz44, thanks for clarifying that post. I highly respect your thought processes and opinions also even though I do not always agree. On this one, I believe the sunset clause is the wrong approach. I will not re-hash my rationale, it is out there in several posts and an editorial. I stand by it, and put my name to it with the confidence to so. It will be interesting on Tuesday to see how it plays out on Tuesday. For the record, I think both groups CAFT and the OCOFOD have lost support for their causes due to the messages being sent out and now the mudslinging. I put confidence when the public goes to the polls, both of these groups when it is all said and done will have had very little influence on any individual decisions being made. And I encourage the public to go the polls and vote, and make an independent decision without influence by any particular group. Voting can be done by absentee as well, the courthouse is open from 9 am to 4:30 pm on weekdays and as long as you have id and are a registered voter in this city, you can vote absentee there before Tuesday. That is something that is not publicized by either group or even the media for that matter.